Bass Boats Captain Bonehead
 

Sorry to point fingers at one particular group but if the shoe fits.......well..... Today while out on the lake I had no less than 3 Captain Bonehead manuvers in 3 minutes.

We were near the Barber Pole heading toward the broads when 1,2,3 bass boats passed at a good clip, but definately not above 45 MPH, but with way less than 150' of safe passage. One was more like 40' and another 60'-80'. There was a 4th incident over near Glendale but they were closer to 150' than 100'. Were we in danger no but that is not the point here - following the rules & laws comes first and foremost or then why do we have them.

To me today and even 3 or 4 years ago my obeservation has been that the operators of bass boats have little regard for the rules and laws of NH on the water. I just cannot believe they are that arrogant about doing what they want regardless of the rule or law.

BTW I was in a 14' Starcraft with a 40 Merc so I was not in a speed boat.

Hummm,,, ok I’ll bite,,,

I’ll agree that all too often the bass boat guys are in a rush, most of the time I see them buzzing around is when there is a tournament, and that’s the nature of that sport. Guess you could ban tournaments on Winnipesaukee and that would end some portion of bass boats buzzing around.

From my perspective the whole 150’ rule thing is a bit extreme for most of the lake and most boaters. I guess if your on the Broads and doing well over 50 MPH you should be adding as much buffer as possible (when you could run well over 50 MPH) but its my observation that most folks are cruising somewhere between 35 MPH and 50 MPH when the chop is a foot or less, and under those conditions I feel more than comfortable with anything over say 75’ of buffer so long as everybody is doing what they are supposed to be doing and are in FULL control. And I feel inclined to add that I have on MANY occasions I have been much closer (30’ – 40’) at cruising speeds and NEVER had a problem when both operators were aware of each other and operating safely. Just try to run on most rivers with 150’ buffer, they would all be no wake zones. If you really NEED 150’ buffer, maybe you need to practice you piloting skills a before boating on any popular waterway,,,

In my mind the 150’ buffer on a lake like Winnipesaukee makes operation difficult in a lot of spots, if you come around an island and your trying to keep proper distance from shore/docks/etc and then you run up on another boat with insufficient space to maintain the 150’ you end up doing “unnatural” things.

My experience has been that rapid deceleration or rapid maneuvers are far more dangerous than safe operation with only 75’ – 100’ between you and anyone else. So I would say “following the rules & laws comes first and foremost” is not such a good rule of thumb or even a good general practice. I suggest that “safe operation” comes first and “rules & laws” come second!

But thats just my opinion and doesn’t really address your questions about “or then why do we have them” Well I guess that’s a case by case issue,,

In some cases we have such rules because one group was more motivated to write another rule/law than those who would oppose it. i.e. (Not because there is any universal truth that says under all conditions this is a must follow/safer procedure) In other cases there may well be scientific evidence (and sufficient common sense to get universal buy-in) i.e. no smoking while refueling. But then your question was probably rhetorical,,,

As for condemning all bass boaters as being unsafe operators, I think not. That’s just too broad a brush to use for my tastes.

But again, that’s just my opinion, or was it you who said “Were we in danger no” and isn’t that what is REALLY important?

Rules are Rules...They need to be followed
 

I believe that rules are rules and they need to be followed. I do not care what type of boat it is or what the people in the boat are trying to do, if there is a rule like the 150 foot rule, all must comply. My personal opinion is the 150' rule is the most important rule we have regarding boating safety. If everyone complied with this rule, the lake would be a safer place.

That said, I also boat in the ocean, out of Boston Harbor, where there is no 150' rule and no limit on speed. It gets interesting in the harbor on weekends. However, we all know what to expect in that environment and we are all aware of the situation.

On the lake, the expectation is within 150', you get to headway speed. Catching a bass, or trying to catch a bass in a tournament, is absolutely no excuse to violate the 150' foot rule. Anyone that thinks this is a valid excuse is missing a very important point. With the wide variety of different boaters on the lake, the 150' rule should always be adhered to. I have always felt this rule is key to safe boating in our mixed-use environment. The bass boaters have to comply, as all of us have to comply.

Please boat with full respect of the rules, even if you do not agree with them. If you do not agree, work to change the rules or leave the boating environmet, but until you are successful in effecting changes or until you leave, you have to comply.

There is a very recent, now permanent, rule that I personally do not like. I will comply with that rule, but I am selling my place on the lake and I will be moving my boating, and my boating dollars, full-time to the ocean because of my personal opposition to what I believe is behind this rule. Until I sell, I will comply with the rule because it is the law.

Good luck with your fishing, but please mind the rules.

R2B

Sounds like someone got up on the wrong side of the bed yesterday.

There were no bass tournaments scheduled for the lake yesterday, link below to 2010 permitted bass tournaments for New Hampshire.
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Fish...ment_table.htm

I have found bass boaters to be among the most courteous on the lake. To point fingers at one particular group because of the actions of 3 or 4, and you stated you were not in danger I guess I am wondering what your point is or did I hit the nail on the head with the first sentence of this reply? Or are bass boaters the next target of useless laws?

That passage is quite narrow, perhaps you can lobby the Dept of Safety for a no wake zone through that area. :)

Bass boats not the root of the problem
 

I'll bite too. Violations of the 150' rule are not a bass boat problem. It is singly, in my humble opinion, the singly most-violated rule of boating, and the perpertrators range from the dreaded bass boats to those scary pontoon boats to rambunctious runabouts to cautionless cuddy cabins to daunting deck boats to.... :rolleye1:

Bottom line, I find that I take few trips onto the lake where I do not witness "close calls" with the 150' rule, in virtually all cases not "dangerous" as such-simply a violation. I dare say I have had very small boats, say a 14 foot Starcraft pass close by, although it happened so fast, I didn't notice what engine the boat had. :rolleye2: (Sorry, JS, I couldn't help myself.:D)

What do I do on the lake? I try to be defensive, and enjoy the day, even waving to those who may be close by. :) Enjoy the boating.

Hope I don’t get flamed for this but here goes,,,

Sorry I believe rules always come second to human instinct for safety, rules are generic and do not fit every situation. Yes the goal should be to follow the rule, but we are not robots, we can think and adapt to unexpected situations and I for one do not plan to trade in that ability for absolute rule following programming any time soon.

Many years back I got a ticket from the NH MP for having a passenger hanging their ankle over the side at cruising speed on my parents bowrider. You would be hard pressed to convince me that rule contributed to the safety of other boaters and/or my passenger. I would argue that any bowrider with small/very young children riding by themselves up front is a far more dangerous situation (one of the MOST common sights on Winnipesaukee!). That said I do not in any way advocate that we add yet another rule to “protect” other boaters or passengers by restricting the age/weight of children and where they can ride, that is for the boat operator and/or the parents to decide, NOT the GOVERNMENT or some group of organized “we know better than you do” whats good for your own safety group.

Also sorry your distaste for a particular rule is causing you to leave Winnipesaukee, but I appreciate you position. Its an unfortunate trend that the encroachment of rules and regulations that some are using to their benefit/preference are having negative impacts on so many others. But this is exactly to my point about the 150’ buffer rule, better to have fewer generic “safe operation” rules than many specific and often unbeneficial rules.

The saying “numbers are stubborn things” seems appropriate here, show me clear numbers about how these rules have significantly improved safety and I’ll sign up, otherwise I say NO to more new rules. If anything we should be constantly looking at old rules and working to strip out the ones that are not enforced/enforceable or are not effective.

education, education, experience, experience
 

there is not one law, rule, anything that can beat boater education and experience. Period.

Just yesterday Captain Bonehead with his Thurstons rental plate went right though Eagle Island no wake zone at full speed for that boat.. Probably around 45mph...

The problem here is simply that renters only have to take a 10 min. course to get a temp. boating license.. But they are Clueless.

Not saying what the bass boats did was right but I bet they were no infringing on safety in anyway where uneducated, unexperienced renters are far scarier!

Yup, more times than I could ever recall I have been overtaken or passed other boats and we were close enough to clearly see each other and exchange a friendly smile and wave and happy to be able to do so because we were both in full control of our boats!

Call me lucky, but operation in rough water conditions and cruisers curling huge wakes have put me at risk far more often that any 150’ buffer issue. Matter of fact I dont think I have ever had a problem with distance, my biggest concern is the guys playing with their electronics and not watching where they are going!

I would say keeping alert and aware of your surrounding is the number one safety practice, not the 150' rule. But then the 150' rule is easier to put into print,,,

Sorry, not looking to be a spoiler over this, I just have never had an issue with safe distance and question how many have actually been at imminent risk of impact compared to other issues of concern. But then I have only been boating for 47 years, so maybe I should wait a little longer and see what the future brings in say another few years after we implement a few dozen more rules,,,

We were out friday for a little cruise......just poking along in the late afternoon. There was no one around except a couple of pontoons. All of a sudden, a bass boat passed us (at a very safe distance) going at least 75mph. There was no one around and the guy wanted to rip a little bit and we didn't see any harm in it. Looked like a Merc 275 as near as we could tell. Actually we were all laughing because the the only thing in the water was his lower unit and the guy did not even leave a wake.....not even a ripple in the very light chop as we crossed where his wake should have been. We were thinking.....he'd be legal in a no wake zone at that speed as long as the speed wasn't posted.

many boneheads this morning
 

I got picked up at Rattlesnake landing, heading out to finish up a new home on the southern tip of the island. The fog was heavy at 7:30 this morning but not one boater who was fishing had any running lights on. As we came up on one boater he was actually waiving his arms at us so we would see him which we already had.
OCDACTIVE
Is it not funny how Thurston’s Marina was all for a speed limit which is going to make our lake that much safer, yet they are one of the few who rent a boat to anyone who will pay the money. Sounds like a hypocrite to me.

First, remember that it's still May, a lot of people need a few weeks on the lake to shake off the cobwebs. Be extra vigilant.

I has a interesting run in with a stand-up jet ski today that reminder me that point of view is important. I was on plane around 30mph nears Governors Island. I saw him off my starboard side on a collision course. I'm the burdened boat, so I turn to pass well behind him. He turns sharply to put us back towards collision, I turn away, he turns again! Then I figure it out, he's trying to jump my wake. A month from now I would have figure this out sooner.

What state were these boats from? If they were that close you sure could see the state letters. My quess would be out of staters. Why I say this, and I did say the same thing last year if you look back. Winnie is known for its smallmouth bass fishing during spawn. I constantly see boats from MA, NJ, CT, and have even seen a few from PA. They come up here to " BED FISH ". They do not know the rules of NH and probably don't care, since this will be the only time they come up here. They then can go home and tell thier friends they caught 75 bass in 1 day and sound like a professional. And we all know a 10 year old kid could do the same. Please next time, try to get a state ID off thier boats, you might be surprised.

Certainly not a bass boat specific issue. Today while about 100 yards before the black top at Sandy Point in Alton, a Formula split myself and another boat and we were probably a smidge under 150 ft but our speed was maybe 15 MPH.

He cleared my boat with maybe 40 ft which is way closer than I was comfortable with given the tight quarters. I think the worst part was that as he passed us, he swung very wide and was probably only 25-30 ft from the docks just past and opposite the black top. I usually don't sweat when someone clips off a some of the 150 ft rule but this kind of action is why legislation will keep getting passed.......

"I believe that rules are rules and they need to be followed. I do not care what type of boat it is or what the people in the boat are trying to do, if there is a rule like the 150 foot rule, all must comply. My personal opinion is the 150' rule is the most important rule we have regarding boating safety. If everyone complied with this rule, the lake would be a safer place."

Resident2B: You really believe that? So when your cruising up to the lake on a Friday night you NEVER go over the 65 MPH speed limit? That is of course you don't live on the lake. You NEVER push it running a little quickly through a yellow light? You NEVER roll through a stop sign without coming to a complete stop? When ever your taking a left or a right pulling out of a side street you ALWAYS use your directionals? Pleeaaassseee. ;)

Last Year
 

Somehow folks thinks the lake is safer after a certain law passed. They perceive that the lake is safe. I had a few shares of Bonehead moves that put me into a defensive mood last summer. For years now, most of these boneheads are those who rents a boat or pwc with only the temporary boater's safety certificate. I remember one Saturday morning when I was traveling through the Weirs Channel heading to Paugus Bay. A huge pontoon boat came out of Thurston's Marina, so close to me that I had to reverse my course against a swift current. The pontoon skipper was actually waving at me to get out of the way! He proceed up the channel to the lake throwing out a good wake. Everyone behing me was motioning him to slow down. He ignored us until he came upon an outgoing boat and he had to slow down.

Don't get me going about Thurston. The fat SOB laughs at me every time I tell him about his renters. And he thinks the lake is safer??????? :mad:

Perhaps hard to believe, but I drive the speed limit and stay in the second lane out of the way on multi-lane highways. If I can safely stop at a yellow light, I do and I stop at stop signs.

I have been driving 46 years, no tickets and no accidents.

To me, rules are rules and I obey them whether I agree with them or not.

Sorry to burst your bubble!

R2B

I cringe whenever someone tempts fate. The last time I heard a similar statement my father-in-law got into a accident the very next day:look:

I agree!

I only made the statement because another poster sarcastically implied I break rules and laws. I know being boring is not so cool, but I am what I am.

I really hope my statement does not bite me in the end! :eek:

R2B

another viewpoint...
 

Several members have posted for or against obeying the 150 ft rule. Some of those who don't think it's necessary argue that closer is OK as long as their boat is under control. I'd like to raise another perspective I haven't seen mentioned yet.

One of the reasons rules work is because people know and agree what the rules are. If there is a "150 ft" rule or a "come to a full stop at a stop sign" rule, when I see another operator in a situation where one of those rules applies I can expect to know how the other operator will behave.

At a four-way stop intersection, if a car arrives from another direction before me I will stop and let it go through the intersection before me. If I arrive first, I expect later arrivals to let me pass first.

If I see another boat on the water, I expect it will allow me 150 ft safe distance. If it comes closer than 150 ft at greater than headway speed, I assume the operator doesn't know the rules or doesn't care to follow them; in either case I am concerned for my safety. If they know the 150 ft rule and ignore it, who know what other rule they may also ignore?

As you may have guessed by now, I believe in following the 150 ft rule. I am also an out-of-state boater but come to NH 2 weeks a year.

Overall, A Good Discussion...
 

Hey folks, being spring time, "Obey the laws"! If WE all do our part, Let us focus on making Lake Winnipesaukee the very safest and most enjoyable Lake in our Country!
The Beetles even sing, "Let It Be"!



Terry
___________________________________

Hummm,,, Have people actually argued against obeying the rule???

I think people have questioned the validity of the concept that the 150’ rule will produce any significant overall improvement in boating safety.

Conversely, I think it is a well supported argument that you don’t need anywhere near 150’ of buffer to safely operate most boats at reasonable cruising speeds, boaters are doing it all over the world every day and the collision numbers just dont support the need for that much buffer in every situation.

So then regarding other viewpoints, how about the idea that the 150’ buffer may produce a less safe environment!

Your concept of safe operation where you make critical assumptions about how other boaters will respond could be one of those situations.

Assuming too much about how other boats will respond to any situation can be very dangerous,,, Most especially when you consider the drastic differences in experiences any two boaters may have.

If you “trust, but verify” what others are doing and always stay actively on guard when operating a boat you will be far better off than arguing for hard and fast laws and then relying too heavily on the assumption that such rules will protect you.

None of what I have stated is advocating not obeying the rule!

If you choose not to obey the rule, you better be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Can I envision a situation where obeying the rule could be problematic?

Sure, anything that put my passengers at greater risk than having 150’ of buffer between me and anyone/thing else. I don’t think I’m going to abruptly haul my throttle back (or make any drastic maneuver to add distance between us) sending my passengers flying out of their seats just because we happened to come closer than 150’ to each other. I’m going to do my best to figure out how to safely get out of the situation in the most reasonable manner.

Does that constitute not obeying the rule, I guess that is a matter of perspective, but in my mind it does not equal advocating not obeying the rule. Your opinion may differ, but I sure hope not, it would be nice to know that we all agree that we need to follow the rules.

Its also be nice to know that we can reasonably debate the value of any rule without being combative with each other.

And finally, I hope that fact that we are all debating such matters means that we all put safety first and that means real world safety, not paper rule safety,,,

Ok, I'm done,,,

Not bursting my bubble...Been driving 33 years myself with one ticket...A parking ticket because of an expired meter :eek:

Dbreskin, if you are overtaken by a boat that is going on plane and it's throwing a wake, if you slow down to headway speed or stop your boat is going to get jostled more than if you maintain you course and speed. So that is an example of where I would use my judgement not let a rule dictate how to handle my boat.

If it was a really tight spot in between rocks or markers then I would slow down as it's better to rock the boat then hit something. And out of respect for property owners I'm probably more cautious about how close I am running at speed along the shore than anything else.

There, we've now argued the 150 ft rule for 2010. Now we need a Weir's Channel debate, couple threads to complain about traffic, then complain when the lake level gets too low and then wait for ice-in...

AHHHH, the sound of COMMON SENSE ! You have to love it, I wish more people had it !

I don't think this thread should be an argument regarding whether or not the 150' rule is necessary.

The 150' rule IS the law. The people that Just Sold was talking about were not following the law. Period. Debate that.

The recent passage of a rule that many consider stupid reduced the respect for others, such as the 150 rule. That's just the way it is. Bonehead rules make for bonehead boaters. The 150 rule makes boating more pleasant, but indeed, there are many situations where both captains agree to use common sense and cheat a bit. As for bass boats - they are some of the safest boaters on the lake, even at 60 mph.

I think you will have to look long and hard for a collision involving a fisherman, bass boat or otherwise. Plenty of fisherman falling in and freezing to death but very few collisions.

I like the 150' rule, I can't judge the distance well enough to know if I ever really cheated, but I always try to give as much space as practical. I think the concept that you must stay a certain large distance away is important. New boaters don't understand that boats are not cars. They don't stop on a dime, there are no lanes and they affect neighboring boats even if they don't hit them.

Selective Observance...
 

Some just need to make a statement. :rolleye2:

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/no-seagulls.jpg

Dear Acres Per Second...
 

You are correct, in a speculative assumption. My statement did include a poor choice of words, in: ["being spring time"]. Most can and do understand that after a loooong winter, that when our Lake becomes liquid some more, everyone seems to want and get out there and put the boots away, so to speak.

"Obey The Laws", was my original intent... Now and furthermore, I just happen to have an excellent driver and boating record, ( part of how come I got to be so old in the first place ). To this very day, I am Homeland Security verified Licenced and approved, and very proud of my CDL-A MC Commercial Drivers Licence. You can't hardly sneeze, or they will take it away from you, these days!

So, over and out for now! But remember that I also included a very heartfelt wish for everyone!

Hey folks, "Obey the laws"! If WE all do our part, Let us focus on making Lake Winnipesaukee the very safest and most enjoyable Lake in our Country!
The Beetles even sing, "Let It Be"!


Terry
_____________________________________