Lake Host documenting personal info?
 

I hope none of you find yourselves in a position wherein you require privacy when you are boating. However, for those of you who do- use caution when launching your boat in Moultonborough. On Sunday 8/8/10 , my wife asked the two Lake Host people who approched the boat we were launching, NOT to record our bow and/or licence plate numbers and they responded that they would not. They did any way. When asked to see thier clipboard ,after they assured my wife they had not recorded our numbers, there was my bow number. I only spoke with the male Lake Host who lied to my wife wherein he assured her that he had not done so. He handed me his clipboard and indicated that I could scratch my numbers off. I did. His female counterpart then contacted the Moultonborough police department and indicated that I had intimadated her. At no time did she or her counterpart indicate that I used threatening, boistreous, or foul language, or for that matter ever speak with the female Lake Host representative, as per the Moultonborough police report. I was then contacted be Sargent Beede and told that I needed to give a statement. I am now fearful that if I launch a boat in Moultonborough that my personal info is to be tracked agaist my will and/or I will be accused of , well anything, if I attempt to launch a boat by myself (without a wittness). I have been informed by chief Dawson of the Moultonborough police department that as the town agreed to the milfoil project by the department of enviromental services and in the contract we "agreed" to have that information tracked. Subsequently I have interveiwed with chief Dawson and he has indicated that the Moultonborough police department has had other troubles with the lake host program representatives.

Problem
 

I think you lose your privacy when you launch at a public ramp into a public lake.

Maybe I am missing something, but your bow and plate# are readily visible to anyone that sees you. Now, if they asked for your SS# and DOB that would be different.

It sounds like you may have caused enough of a scene to have your private info recorded by the MPD whereas had you just launched and gone the info would be lost in the morass of clipboard info kept by the Host program.

If you want to avoid the personal attention, launch before 8 or after 5 on weekends, or during any week day. You can also launch at the state ramp aside Harilla Landing anytime.

The lake hosts are providing a service to other lakes more than Winnipesaukee. If you delaunch from Lees Mills or States landing, is it VERY likely you will have milfoil on your trailer, which can live a week or more. If your trailer goes into another lake, it can introduce it there.

As one of the lake hosts in Moultonborough, I understand the procedure and potential privacy concerns. The primary purpose for recording bow numbers is so that if the boat comes out the same day, the same entry on the log sheet is used and the other questions don't have to be asked again. To my knowledge, the bow numbers are not used for other purposes - but I will ask the question to be sure.

Bow numbers are indeed public information, so there should be no expectation of privacy, just as your car license plate is recorded by camera as you pass through the toll-booths. Lake hosts are instructed to disengage from the boater if there is any resistance, but also instructed to write down the number anyway. You don't have to answer the questions about where your boat was last in the water, nor do you have to submit to an inspection. In the training, we were asked to check tackle boxes for milfoil on the lures, but I don't know any lake host who has gone that far.

In my experience - 100% of the boaters at the ramp were friendly, interested in learning more about invasive weeds and glad to be sure they were not a channel for spreading the problem. That said, there are times that I might be in a private mood and would feed my space had been invaded by the lake hosts. It is one of the downsides of milfoil.

Vita, I have to disagree with you on your statement about "THEY HAVE CREATED ENOUGH". They did not start or create ANY situation. They were lied to by the host's. They hosts were the ones who created any and all of the problems here, not the boaters. If the hosts just would have honored their words,(which a man or woman is only as good as their words are!) Maybe we should be looking for more honest people then the one that CREATE this situation. As far as the girl-woman? host that called the police, that is a bit riduclious, as Lakegeezer mentioned the hosts are supposedly trained to walk away from situations like this. Bottom line is if what loopcharged says is actually what happened, all of this could have been avoided if 1. The hosts did not lie !
2. The hosts did their job they way they were trained and payed to do.

Sorry correction here:

You can launch at the state ramp at the end of Long Island, but you cannot launch at Harilla Landing unless you are a member there.

On the other hand....
 

Does anybody else wonder what Loopcharged has to hide? Whether or not the Lake Host lied is neither here nor there. Bow numbers and license plate numbers are indeed public information. The Milfoil project is providing a much needed service for Lake Winnipesaukee and other lakes in NH. They, or anybody can record bow numbers or license plate numbers for any purpose they want. Public launches and public docks are just that...public. Sometimes the easiest way to not be noticed is to just go with the flow and not bring attention to yourself by putting up a fuss in a public place.

I do as well, but felt it was not really the place to ask what
but yes intriguing
yet again it could just be a principal

You ever wonder about the privacy laws, I have often wondered about why I get so many mailings after I get a U.S. bond for one of my nephews or neices, or other friends kids for birthdays and events

Well after all the privicey laws and everything else, come to find out the Federal government sells your information to marketing companies after receiving your information when you purchase a bond

How do you like that one?????:confused:

No one checking for mill foil at Alton Bay, however, they are checking at Merrymeeting Lake.

No, I didn't consider that. I just figured he was another person who was tired of having any of his identifying info tracked, logged, reported and noted.

I agree that it is public data, and easily recordable in a number of ways, and I also think the milfoil people can do their service without recording someone's info, even if that request is not entirely rational.

We've found the Lake Hosts (Libby Museum ramp) to be friendly and professional. My guess for the lying is that it was a strategy by a young person to avoid conflict. Not a good decision, but not the end of the world.

I am vigilant about my personal information, but Bow# and license plate# are public and readily visible.

Agree with Vitabene
 

With all due respect, you turned your private boating exprience into a public one when you got confrontational at a public boat launch and posted about it online.

Hope you had a good day on the lake though, that is what it is all about.

For the record
 

I am a full time year round resident of Moultonborough and have been since 1979. As a boy I worked with Fred Marcus ( his daughter now runs the loon sanctuary/center ) at the "point" where Fred was working with Dartmouth college to eradicate milfoil. I have personaly witnessed the degradation of the Lee's mills and greens basin areas. I was working on Squam lake when milfoil was discovered there and cooperated with the SLA to ensure it would not propagate from outside trailer traffic. I am very aware of my responcibility as a boater to help prevent the migration of invasive speicies. I also have some very serious and personal reasons for not wanting records of where I am or what I may or may not be doing there. In the past I have simply and politely declined the Lake Host's request for inspections and recording of my bow numbers. Until last Sunday there had been no trouble. Ultimately I believe that I was used as a pawn wherein the female Lake Host representative didn't like my wife declining their request for inspection. I was not present when the request was made and declined. I only confirmed that Lake Host was performing as they stated. They did not. If when I veiwed the "public" information on the clipboard and found that Lake Host had done what they indicated to my wife they would do, there would be no issue.

Talk about making your concern worse
 

First of all,what is the big deal with your bow numbers being recorded at a ramp?Anyone could be just around the corner or in the water at the ramp doing the same thing.What harm would come to you with this info?As soon as you register your boat and display the numbers you gave up your supposed right to privacy about if your boat is launched at Winni.If your that paranoid than I suggest you launch at a private ramp.

I think he has a concern about his whereabouts being tracked and logged, for whatever reason.

How could that information be used? If someone's boat got hit, would they refer to the list to see likely offenders? I guess I don't see the point of keeping the list.

IDK - Are the hosts paid employees? Of whose? State/Private?

FWIW - A friends daughter here in M'boro is a paid lake host.

One could only speculate why someone would want to withhold this information. :look:

Providing past employment history on a public domain forum may lead to ones identity being discovered after all. ;)

Dosen't matter his intentions....I also find it rather irritating that someone is recording peoples comings/goings. Americans are funny that way - wanting to stay off lists.

I suppose one can just cover up their numbers just prior to launch then incover them in the water...just to mess with a few people who have nothing better to do on a nice sunny lake than other than record bow numbers.

:)

This is the problem with the lake host system. I knew at some point this would happen. In this day and age it is to easy for people to become paranoid. And feel as though big brother is watching them. While I agree with educating people about milfoil and other invasive non native plant species, I don't agree with recording any information what so ever for any purpose.

I understand exactly what they are trying to do with that information, because they are tracking the same information at lakes and ramps where milfoil exist. Now what do people think is going to happen when your bow number show up at a ramp where milfoil all of a sudden shows up and also show up with in a reasonable prior period of time at a ramp will milfoil is known to be a problem?

No I am not paranoid.... it is simply the truth... the liberalistic society that creates these programs is looking for ways to blame and target people to pay for the problem.

I was originally thinking of participating in the Lake Host program myself, until I heard that they wanted to track and take information. That is just the wrong way to approach these problem.... education is how it needs to be done, not through tactics that can lead to blame.

One COULD speculate as to why someone would not want their bow number recorded but then when you think about the fact that people would look at info like this and start speculating about who was where and why it sort of becomes self explanatory in my mind... And I say this as a government employee. I would guess that the interest in bow numbers is harmless and related to tracking ramp use patterns relative to milfoil infestations to better control its spread. Again that is a guess. That said, I would probably ask people not to track my bow number either just on principle. Let's face it most folks go there to "get away". If I felt that I was being followed or tracked I wouldn't want go there anymore.

NH Lakes Association Lake Hosts website
 

The program, according to its website, seems to be a worthwhile effort that has a track record of identifying and helping eliminate invasive species infestation across the State.

HERE is the website that covers this particular program.

At the bottom you can read the instructor guide, the worksheet they use that requires bow number information, and all kinds of different information.

And as LocalRealtor indicated, there are indeed paid positions at the ramps.

I would assume that a call to the Lakes Association would clarify as to why they are tracking bow numbers. The information within the website assures that the information gathered is confidential.

Maybe there is a reader from the Lakes Association here that could shed more light on this particular policy?

By the way, I found the website very informative! :)

Personally Identifiable Information (PII)
 

There's an information security concept called PII (Personally Identifiable Information). It's any personal information that can be used to identify people. When organizations collect PII data, they are obligated to get your permission first, and then tell you exactly what it's going to be used for. They also are obligated to not collect PII data on you if you don't want them to.

What is PII data? It's a number of things. See here. You'll notice that Vehicle Identification information is one of them. In fact, why do newspapers and TV always obscure the license plate when they show someone on TV? Because that info is PII, that's why.

The Lake Host program needs to revise its policies. They are not allowed to record PII data without permission. A good lawyer can make some hay on this.

When out with the public...
 

When you're out with the public, you have no right to absolute privacy.Ask any celebrity about paparazzi. Please don't look at me in the market. Don't look at my car's license plate. The photo you're taking of your girlfriend had me in the background. No photos on The Mt. when there are crowds. Why are you paranoid about your plate being recorded? Stay home!

Interesting link, but where does it say what you allege? There is nothing in that article that has anything to do with your claim. The closest is: "The U.S. Senate has recently proposed the Privacy Act of 2005, which attempts to strictly limit the display, purchase, or sale of PII without the person's consent." Now that may have passed, and result it what you claimed, but the link you gave does not reveal that, if in fact it happened.

So, you may be correct, but have provided no proof or in fact any evidence suggesting you might be correct.

"A good lawyer can make some hay on this"...
 

OMG!!! you want to get a lawyer involved with this?

The link was to provide a list of examples of PII data, which includes vehicle identification information.

Did I say that? Nope. BUT -- if anybody misuses personal data, that is serious. I think the people who instinctively resist requests for this data are correct -- and ANYBODY who doesn't respect rights to privacy are opening a can of worms that, unfortunately, will ultimately involve lawyers. It would be better for the lake hosts to know that linking vehicle license numbers with names and/or addresses is skating on thin legal ice.

Gary, you're right. BUT, you do have a right to the privacy of your personal information. That's what PII data is (as I said earlier). When your information is made public without your permission, that's illegal. It's a matter of knowing what that information is, and whether it's protected by privacy laws. Just saying. It's not always obvious, though.

Here's an example. The boat registration number, by itself, isn't personal information. Neither is your name. Nor the fact that your home has an address.

Now, though, link them together. And then use that info to track your whereabouts at any particular instant in time. And then publish it. "Gary's always out on his boat, Thursdays, between 1:00pm and 4:00pm, and he lives at xxxx."

So, we now know when you're not home. This info has been published. And all sorts of things can happen.

Not saying that specific combination is illegal, just saying that's how information can begin to be linked, and there's no purpose in that whatsoever.

Although I tend to see both sides of an issue, this one seems clear cut to me. If there is no LEGAL REQUIREMENT to give the information to the Lake Hosts or whomever, then there is no legal requirement. The private party is under no obligation to defend him/herself to anyone including this Forum. Is this not the same as the RIGHT to take the fifth amendment? The argument is that "you must have something to hide" if you refuse to give information you are not required to do. But the beauty of our country and its laws is that if you are not legally required to give information you do not have to. The fact that someone puts this on a public Forum such as this does not take away from his/her RIGHT to privacy at the docks, unless there is some legal point I am missing in this specific instance.

There's a difference. Giving up your PII data is one thing -- an agency, company, or organization actively collecting it and storing it is quite another. Apples and oranges.

I never give my telephone number to the grocery store clerk when I am asked. Others do. I don't understand why.

Personnal Information
 

Let's be clear, bow numbers are not personnal information. They are public, just as a car's license plat is. The information behind the bow numbers (name, address, phone number, etc.) is the private information. There is no need/requirement to get approval to record a bow number. If they use the bow number to access your personnal information, that is a different story.

A suggestion: if you don't want your bow number recorded, use a private launch facility and pay the fee. No lake hosts there.

"Everyone is after me but, I'm not paranoid!"

Nh lakes association responds
 

The NH LAKES Association is aware of the interaction discussed in this thread that recently occurred at the Lees Mills ramp in Moultonborough. Please understand that there are two sides to every story.

We do understand that there is some concern about Lake Hosts recording bow numbers. The reason that Lake Hosts are trained to do so is so that they, and the Lake Hosts that work after them during the same day, will have a way of knowing if the boaters leaving the lake were already given the "milfoil talk" by a Lake Host when they entered the lake that day. If the boater has already received the "talk," by looking at the list of bow numbers, the Lake Host will know that they don't have to bother the boater with information they already know and they will only help the boater conduct an out-going inspection.

Since this highly successful exotic species education and prevention program began in 2002, volunteer and paid lake hosts have helped boaters inspect more than 300,000 boats and have prevented almost 1,000 fragments of exotic aquatic plants from hitchhiking their way into the approximately 900 lakes and ponds in New Hampshire that remain exotic-free.

To the bulk of you responding to this thread, thank you for your continued support of this critical program. For more information, and to see at what lakes exotic species "saves" have been made at this summer, we invite you to visit http://www.nhlakes.org/lake-host-program.htm.

Although I appreciate the Lakes Association response and I support their worthy activity, the point remains that if someone does not wish to participate and they are not required to participate then-they should be able to decline.

loopcharged, welcome to the forum. You have lived here for over 30 years and just now joined?

Why are you concerned about your information being recorded? Do you somehow think that your vehicle and boat registration information is private?

Trust me, I work in information security and anyone can find out pretty much anything about anyone if they really want to. :look:

NH LAKES clarification
 

Just a point of clarification, Lake Hosts are trained to invite boater to participate in a courtesy boat inspection program. They are also trained to not conduct an inspection when a boater does not welcome it.

Are they trained to record Boat and/or vehicle data regardless? I'm asking this as a legitimate question because it doesn't seem like it was directly answered.

Answers but a phone call away...
 

I want to thank the staff at the Association for taking my call and explaining their program, and satisfying my curiosity about the taking down of bow numbers when an individual voluntarily participates in the inspection.

The link I had provided earlier explains the whole program in detail, includes the actual form being used and clearly indicates in its instructions to its hosts that interaction with the public is strictly voluntary.

They are violating no Local, State or Federal law by annotating the bow number in their form, and they are not linking any address, name, dob or any other personal information on the form to the bow number.

As has been previously stated, the bow number they are using for tracking is a public number. That is why it is required by law to be prominently displayed on the bow!

It took me less than a minute doing an internet search to find the answer to every question posed in this thread.

It took me just a few minutes on the phone with a very courteous staff member to explain the allegations being made here, get clear answers to the program and be satisifed that no one's privacy was nefariously being invaded.

I just don't understand why people don't talk on the phone anymore. Whether its the Marine Patrol, local or State officials or the fine folks at the NH Lakes Association there usually is someone always available to answer your question.

Anyway, I thank the Lake Association for tackling this very serious issue and tip my hat to them for coming onboard here in an attempt to clarify their important program.....:)

Back on track
 

I think some here have missed the point. From the first post "my wife asked the two Lake Host people who approched the boat we were launching, NOT to record our bow and/or licence plate numbers and they responded that they would not. They did any way."

From the very informative post from the NHLA I understand why they do it however I believe loopcharged asked that they do not for whatever reason however they did so anyway. I believe this was their problem and I see no answer from anyone here as to why that happened.

Recording of Bow Numbers
 

Yes, they are, unless a boater does specifically ask that their information not be recorded. Even if an inspection is not performed, it helps to jot down the bow number so that the next Lake Host on duty is aware that the boater will not want to be approached once he or she departs the lake.

In this particular instance, I do not know that we have the whole story. But the bottom line is that boaters do not have to worry about any invasion of privacy. Also, they have the right to refuse an inspection and to request the bow number not be recorded. Lake Hosts are NOT instructed to notify the authorities if a boater refuses inspection.

Response to DEJ and Skip
 

DEJ - That is a good point, and I believe you are right that loopcharged's original issue was with the Lake Hosts recording his bow number after he asked them not to. Like I said before, there are two sides to this story.

Skip - Thank you for your kind words and for spending some time researching our organization. We are very proud of our Lake Host program and how successful it has been over the years. It is important that people realize that our goal is to stop the spread of exotic aquatic species through education and outreach. This involves thousands of interactions with boaters each year, and, unfortunately, it is likely that a few interactions, like the one that spurred this duscussion, will not be positive.

Hmm this is kind of interesting.

Since I have to launch every time I go to the lake I've gotten to know a couple of the lake hosts that typically sit at the ramp that I use. They have been very nice and courteous. The first time I see a new person they are friendly, introduce themselves and explain what they are there for and as a personal aside I think this program is more worthwhile, if for nothing else to educate people. Anyways never have I had any one of them just come up and inspect, rather they ask which I am more than happy to oblige.

Now that all said, every time I go in my bow numbers are recorded, I was not aware they were taking my plate number too, but as already stated it's out there for everyone to see so I see no harm. I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory that somehow your being tracked other than maybe at the end of the year the NH Lakes Assoc may compile the data to see how boats may be used or not in various water bodies and which ones to determine where they should focus their efforts.

If anyone is that worried about this information, believe me there is so much personal information that can be gotten with a computer, a little money and a few simple sites on the internet. There is no such thing as private data anymore. The lake host program is the last thing I'd be worried about. However if the kids doing it are not respectful of anyone who requests their information not be recorded that puts a bad face on an organization who is trying to do something worthwhile and noble. That is unfortunate.

Do not confuse personal with private; they are not mutually exclusive. Bow numbers are most definitely personal information, just as a license plate number on your car is personal information. Both are used to identify an individual vehicle, which is usually linked to an individual owner. Both bow numbers and license plate numbers are both personal and public information.

this is not fair but...
 

If you do NOT want to be found do the following...

1: Get your name recorded in a police report
2: Start a forum thread about it with a facebook link
3: Start a blog about it, no start 2 blogs
4: Provide information on past employment
5: Provide information on where you live and how long you have lived there

But do not under any circumstance provide your bow number

Seriously, you sound genuinely upset about the events at the dock and it makes sense that your mad that someone lied to you for no good reason, who wouldn't be, and we are told here that hosts have been trained to not do the exact thing you claimed they did (I know 2 sides to the story) if they did, then shame on them, but... the steps taken here are not consistent with trying to not be found

A few points of clarification...
 

HERE is a direct link to the form in question.

Only boat bow numbers are recorded if applicable. No personal information is recorded, and no vehicle plate numbers are recorded.

A bow number in and of itself is not personal. Only when that number is researched and a name attached does it become personal. The bow number also only indicates the registered entity, it does not have the ability to list who the operator or occupants are at any given time.

The NH Lakes Association does not inquire of the State who the boat is registered to. The information is only used on site that day at that ramp to keep track of who has already been inspected and given the presentation.

Finally, none of us know what the verbal exchange was at the ramp that day. We have one anonymous version. There is also another version that I am sure is held by the Lake hosts, and probably a third version held by the Police department.

But unless any of us were there any conversations, accusations or actions is mere speculation on are part.

That said, I am glad thart the original post appeared. It allowed me a reason to be aware of the program, motivated me to call the NH Lakes Association and get straight answers to their actions and has allowed me to develop an informed opinion that they have an excellent and well needed program in place.

Thank you NH Lakes Association. I hope you folks post regularly here on the dangers of invasive species and what we can do as boaters to mitigate the risks...:)

I subscribe to the belief that anytime you give information to anyone it can be abused. But since the numbers are in 3 inch high across the bow or slightly smaller on the bumper, what can you do?

Given what Google can do these days, there is no real expectation of privacy anymore, have you looked at street view or Bings birdeye? Google reads every Gmail, they will read this after it's posted. It's enough to make you a little paranoid. These groups all promise to "do no harm" but data has a tendency to leak out and data lasts a lot longer than the "good" people now in charge. Look at the news. This is small potatoes.

Annonimity
 

My wife asked Lake Host not to record the numbers and that should have been the end of it. I can only hope that in the future Lake Host representatives will respect the wishes of PRIVATE citizens and perform accordingly. :)

I still do not understand why the lake host recorded their bow number when asked not to. Seems like a simple question however no answer has been given.

Simple.

You were not there so you have no way of knowing the sequence of events.

The bow number could have easily been put on the form prior to the request being made not to do the inspection.

"...it helps to jot down the bow number so that the next Lake Host on duty is aware that the boater will not want to be approached once he or she departs the lake..."


As noted above, the spokesperson for the Lakes Association already indicated that bow numbers are recorded at times even when the boat is not inspected, so that the same boat will not be approached again.

None of us have no way of knowing who said what to who that day, or when the number in question was actually "jotted down" and we never will.

No skip, this is simple, why did the lake host record that info when specifically asked not to, that is the question. You were not there either might I remind you so your scenerio of events is a moot point. Seems like a pretty simple question to me.

Recording bow number
 

Actually, My wife was present as the Lake Host people approched the boat in question and was witness to the documentation of the bow numbers. When she witnessed the Lake Host man writing she asked "are you writing down the bow numbers" . He replied, yes. She then asked him to remove the number from the list. He assured her he would. He did not.

Thank you for that reply loop, perhaps now skip has the info he needs from someone who was there. The question still remains, why did they record this info when asked not to? Since you were not there skip let those that were handle this from here. It is a little concerning that the NHLA has skirted the original question of why did they record the numbers against the wishes of the boat owner?.

Straight from the horses mouth..so to speak.Does this help :rolleye2:

No it does not. The original poster asked the following "my wife asked the two Lake Host people who approched the boat we were launching, NOT to record our bow and/or licence plate numbers and they responded that they would not. They did any way."

That is what is in question here, not the policy of the NHLA. :rolleye1:

Well try this...find out EXACTLY which host it was and ask him for yourself because your specific question can only be answered by that one person. maybe that will help ;)

Mr. Webmaster, I would not want your job...why...because here we go again!

I believe the NHLA can answer that question however from what I have read here they refuse to do so.

Once again the original question was "my wife asked the two Lake Host people who approched the boat we were launching, NOT to record our bow and/or licence plate numbers and they responded that they would not. They did any way."

Hope this helps clarify this issue for you!

Facts
 

Just request a copy of the police report. All the info you need is contained in the statement given by the Lake Host/s.

It took the easy way out and just watched the video.

http://www.nhlakes.org/Lake_Host.mpg

Since you started this why don't you post a copy of it, I am sure that would clear this up and perhaps skip will have his answers as well as we all know LEO's always get it right.

There are many who would define what you term "funny that way" as LIBERTY.

Thanks...excellent video!
 

Thanks JP, missed the video when I was looking at the other info.

It is great that we have an organization like the NH Lakes Association and their staff and volunteers working dilligently to keep our waterways safe from invasive species.

If anyone else gets a moment, the video is an excellent way to familiarize yourself with this fantastic organization.... :)

:offtopic: Why did the chicken cross the street ? I don't know let's ask the farmer. :eek:

Well said. :)

forgive, forget and move on
 

The lake hosts were notified today that if a boater asks to not have their bow numbers recorded, they should not be recorded, and scratched out if already recorded, which is common. Sometimes it takes an incident like this to clarify procedures. Those who ask to not be recorded may have to ask twice, as the next shift won't know they are a repeat visitor to the ramp. If the lake host in question here made a mistake, hopefully they will be forgiven and not do it again.

Note: not an official spokesperson for NHLA - just a lake host volunteer

I am still confused....So this is a public ramp? I could sit in my pickup truck and write down every number that used that ramp all day, every day and no one could do anything about it. But just because some kid, that was trying to do his/her job said they did not, but did, write down some numbers, this became a national news item? Wait a second...a kid lied? Stop the presses. I have never heard of someone lying, to get out of a fight before in my life. Seriously people...this is Summer. Time to be having fun. Not admonishing some poor kids at a boat ramp. Those hosts are trying to contain an invasive species that is costing our towns money. They are doing what they are supposed to do and instruct boaters. These kids are working on their summer vacation, trying to help boaters to do the right thing. To make such a big deal about publicly displayed plate and reg numbers is petty beyond belief. There is plenty of other issues in this world to worry about. If you are so paranoid about Big brother, the next time you pull up to a public ramp, just drape your vehicles with a large parachute or blue tarp. You know the Gov't satellites are up there hovering in space watching you. Heck I might just be in the parking lot, with my binoculars, writing down your numbers. :rolleye2:

Just curious why the NHLA could or would not post this info? Could have avoided most of this thread if they had done so.

Lakegeezer, are you an official spokes person for the NHLA? Thanks.

:rolleye1:

The main complaint here seems to be that an employee acted inappropriately, and just like the restaurant threads that complaint could have been better handled by loopcharged by calling the agency that the employee represents.

loopcharged seems so incensed that an employee perhaps stepped outside the lines and lied (he claims), that I can in fact see how he may have become intimidating to that person. A person can be intimidating without necessarily saying/interacting directly with a particular person.

If the hosts are paid employees, this is probably now a personnel matter in the association's eyes and details with regards to the incident cannot be discussed in public without opening themselves up to legal action by the employees.

If that indeed is the case that is all they had to say and that would have been that and ended this discussion. Since they did not the question still exists. Here at the end of the day an answer from the NHLA still has not been given.

I am disappointed at the responses posted here by the NHLA, an organization I have supported for years. In several posts they danced around the central question of recording bow numbers when asked not to, but gave no clear answer. In post #40 they gave a contradictory answer.

I am also disappointed in some posts by members here. Many people are concerned about information being gathered about them. They have every right to stand up for what they feel may invade their privacy. That DOES NOT mean they were doing anything wrong. It is a cheap shot to imply that because a person values their privacy that they have been breaking the law. Suggesting they "stay home" or "stay away from public ramps" is uncalled for. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Why are they looking only for plants and not Zebra Mussels too? ?
 

Wow, some very diverse (and a few unexpected) comments in this thread. First, I do appreciate their work and any and all efforts to help clean up and protect our lakes. However....

New Hampshire Lakes Association and their Lakes Host Program goal: ...to prevent the introduction and spread of exotic aquatic plants...

They inspect boats and trailers looking for exotic plants BUT NOT ANIMALS? Why are they not looking for Zebra Mussels too? Is it a different kind of inspection to look for Zebra Mussels? Why exclude this aquatic nuisance species and concentrate only on plants?

Until this thread got me to look at their web site I thought the inspections were for all aquatic nuisance species - plant and animal but apparently I am wrong.

Get those bow numbers on paper but don't look for zebra mussels? Why waste an inspection opportunity?

In the training to be a lake host and also in lectures from the NH DES, we are taught that Lake Winnipesaukee is an acid rain lake. The low PH makes the calcium level in the water too low to support the growth of shells that zebra mussels depend on. They can not survive if introduced, so there is no need to inspect for them.

The lake hosts offer a pamphlet to rampers, with the plants of concern along with ones that are not yet in our lake. The hosts also have a nice laminated chart with large pictures of each one - to help them with identification. There is another program for those that want to help - and that is the weed watchers. After milfoil treatment, volunteers are needed to scour the lake for new and returning patches. In that training, we learn that there are some natural forms of milfoil and it is not always easy to know which is native and which is invasive. So much to learn - so little time. :)

In the latest presentation by NH DES (last Thursday at the Loon Center), Amy Smagula showed pictures taken under her boat trailer after examining a milfoil filled lake. It is amazing where those plants can hide!

I don't think so
 

I fail to see anything contradictory in NHLA's post. Particularly #40- "Yes they are". NHLA's posts stated why they take down bow #s of boats that do and don't participate and it makes sense in both cases.

You make it sound like they are gathering information that is sensitive in any way. It is a bow #, you know that # that is required to be on your boat, be contrasting in color and large enough to be read from a distance.

I am sure that the NHLA is not tied into the National Security Agency.

Valuing your privacy does not mean intimidating a person doing his or her summer job. You know that a person does not need to use loud, boisterous or foul language to be intimidating. Read the OP again carefully. I am quite sure had I been at the ramp, I know who I would have sided with.

I am still trying to wrap my head around your last sentence, but I will say that I (and I daresay most others) will lose no sleep over what you think.

Lake Host "kid"
 

There were no minors involved. The female Lake Host representative is 47 years of age as per the Moultonborough police report. Her male counterpart appeared to be about the same age.

Lake Host incident police report
 

To obtain a hard copy of any police report requires the case to be closed and a written request that must be OK'd by the chief of police. I have submitted a request for the same. I have only recieved verbal data from the chief of police as the case is not yet closed. I would be willing to share the details with any and all concerned , however I must also agree that this all is rather silly. I launch many boats from many locations . I will echo my position from a previous post that I am aware of my resposibility as a boater to ensure that I am not propagating the migrition of invasive speicies. I have had the Lake Host "talk" enough to commit it to memory. This is why I politely decline. Recording any of the "public registration numbers" is poitless as I will always decline the inspections. My vision is good and my resposibilites clear. Consuming the time of boaters at the ramp on busy weekends makes for extended launch times and can cause other problems. There is such a thing as good ramp edicate.

So now we come full circle
 

Loopcharged told us the ages of the Lake Hosts......now he tells us he will post the police report with all the gathered information by the police that will contain the names of the Lake Hosts....and his own.....say what???
So...about this privacy issue...........

You've missed the point. I said I would share, not post...If you're really that concerned about this then contact me and we can meet to share the report.

OK....I rescind my remarks about the reps being kids on Summer break. I always see kids at the Libby Museum launch ramp so therefore my brain went right to kids doing the Hosting at your ramp.
I'll stand up and apologize.
Actually after thinking about this, it is what makes America, America. The right to stand up for what you believe in. Eventually these things, such as Milfoil inspections, may become mandatory, therefore making these talks and registration number takings a necessary thing in the future. (I commend the fact that you seem to be diligent about Milfoil transfer from your boat, but just because I am careful to separate my trash and recycle does not keep me from getting gigged by the Trash Nazis at the dump. Or to get a lecture from him about my sorting style.) So, what will everyone do then? Also will there soon be an added fee when registering your boat, say, for Milfoil abatement? Who knows what is coming down the road. Or the ramp. Privacy may not be something you will be able to control when going boating in the future.

asked and answered
 

The NHLA tells them not to record the information if that is the boater's request. The host may have already written it down when they received the request not to, they didn't erase it or cross it out when the request was made - so they made a mistake, screwed up, whatever you want to call it. It's not a policy issue. The policy is to respect the wishes of the boater.

Hope I don't make any mistakes today!

Additional clarification
 

Two more points of clarification...

Yes, the written objective of the Lake Host program does state that the goal is to prevent the spread of exotic aquatic plants as this is the primary concern relative to exotic aquatic species in New Hampshire. But, rest assured, keeping an eye out for zebra mussels, and removing them when found (thankfully, this has NOT happened yet), is also taught in the Lake Host training sessions. For more information about zebra mussels, how they spread, what threat they pose to New Hampshire's approximately 1,000 lakes and ponds, and what NH LAKES recommends to prevent their spread, we invite you to read our article that appears the current issue of the Weirs Times (August 12th issue)entitled "Zebras in the lake?" You can download it from our homepage at www.nhlakes.org (look under the heading, "NH LAKES in the news") or visit www.weirs.com.

NH LAKES will not provide any comment on what the boater(s) and or Lake Host(s) in question did or did not do at the Lees Mills ramp in Moultonborough on Sunday, August 8th, to protect the privacy of all parties involved. What we can tell you is that both parties chose to report and resolve their issue with the local authorities and that NH LAKES has reiterated to participating groups about what Lake Hosts should do and should not do when a boater does not want his/her vessel inspected or bow number recorded.

Although what is reported to have happened between the Lake Host(s) and boater(s) is unfortuante (and a one-of-a kind event within our 9-year history of the program during which 300,000 courtesy boat inspections have been conducted) this has been a terrific opportunity to raise awareness about the importance of the NH LAKES Lake Host Program and what boaters can do to help keep New Hampshire's lakes free from exotic aquatic plant for all to enjoy - THANK YOU!

Enjoy the rest of the summer!

I make mistakes all day long. If you read the original post, I was fine with removing my number from the list. It was the Lake Host representative that felt the need to involve the Moultonborough police department. I am only interested in launching my boat, not interacting with policemen on my day off.

In what is now post #38 you are asked...

Are they trained to record Boat and/or vehicle data regardless?

Your answer is...

Yes, they are, unless a boater does specifically ask that their information not be recorded.

The first part of your answer indicates that you do record bow numbers "regardless". The second part states that you do not. But perhaps you are making a distinction between "bow numbers" and other types of information such as "their information".

The fact that you are unable to make a reply to a simple question has me wondering what your policy was before this incident. I am asking NOTHING about the incident at the boat ramp, that is all "he said, she said". Nor does the police report interest me.

Please answer a simple question about your policy BEFORE the boat ramp incident. Was it NHLA policy to record bow numbers even if asked not to?

I'm curious how long the recorded data is kept for and/or what other uses it is put to.

It's time to call in Woodward and Bernstein! Perry Mason is already here.

There a number of Private organizations out there that want to inspect your boat for one reason or another. (It's for your own good you know.) Is NHLA one of those..? Do they get government money..? Where do they get the money to Pay people to be Hosts..?

Environmentalists have been tagging wild animals with GPS tracking devices for years just to see where they go. (It's for their own good) Why not just attach a GPS Tracker to each boat when it's launched, (a fee could be charged for this to cover the cost of milfoil abatement, etc) and collect the device when the boat is hauled. All sorts of information could be collected in Real Time on a laptop by the Hosts, or even Law Enforcement. :)

After all, surveillance cameras are everywhere already...... Think Red Light traffic cameras.


The above is just a thoughtfull citizen expressing an idea ...With tongue planted firmly in cheek. :D :D :D NB

Futher clarifications
 

No. A Lake Host has not been, nor will ever be, trained to record a bow number if asked not to by a boater.

NH LAKES does not enter bow numbers into any computer database and we don't use it for other purposes. With that said, if a Lake Host believes that a crime has been committed against him/her at a boat ramp, they may or may not on their own accord, chose to report the bow number to the authorities so that the authorities can do whatever investigation they deem is necessary to resolve the issue.

Bow numbers are found only on the original written hard copies of Lake Host boater survey data sheets that are forwarded from local lake hosting groups to NH LAKES headquarters. These data sheets are kept in a secure location where they are shredded according to our data retention policy, which is five years.

For those of you who are interested in learning more, please feel free to contact NH LAKES at 603-226-0299. In addition, you are most welcome to attend an official 2011 Lake Host training sesison to learn more. Training session dates will be posted on our website in February 2011.

Why would they even need to be kept past the day they are recorded? If the purpose is just to avoid re-educating someone at the end of the day, and the data isn't entered into a database or anything else, why keep them so long?

Welcome NHLA
 

NHLA, welcome to the forum... banging your head on the table yet:)

Thank you, and keep up the good work!

My thanks once again also!

Looking through some of these posts you'd think you ran a restaurant instead of a Lake Association! :D

Assuming the Lake Host doesn't feel the need to call in the authorities for every person that asks not to have the bow number recorded, and/or doesn't call in the authorities on a regular basis for any reason, I have to conclude that there MIGHT HAVE BEEN some extenuating circumstances for doing so in this case, and in the end the story will tell itself.

I am trying to understand what this practice of recording is all about? Many can just put boats in the water from homes etc. May I know why this is being done? Is it for the Millfoil or ? Is it for safety to have each boat from some outside area recorded? Do all boats going into the lake need to be registered here for the time they are in the water or could they just come in from out of state? Thank you so much.

From post #31

That doesn't explain why they keep the records for 5 years.

Yes, they're a great organization overall, but that doesn't mean that some of their data collection/retention policies couldn't be improved a bit.

A mussel by any other name ...
 

Are you sure they don't ? I think I had some excellent escargot zebre at one of their joints .... ;)


Granted it came late and was cold but I thought ... well that's the French for ya.

Thanks to all!
 

Thanks to all for your information and insight. I just read meen macs quote and I think he/she has a point. I wasn't rude or threatening during my interaction with the lake host people however I probably could have smiled some when I found they had lied to my wife. Maybe they intended to scratch off my number and forgot? Anyway I applaud the efforts of the volunteers who are trying to help with the milfoil problem. See you all on the pond...

OK...you want the real truth!
 

Enough is enough, I can't withhold the secret any longer.

Me & mee-n-mac set up cameras at dusk last night down in Alton Bay.

Yep....you guys were right all along.

We caught this flight of Black Helicopters heading south from various boat ramps around the lake. Using a special digital decoder mee-n-mac crafted from an old VCR and a broken DVD player we copied the pilots chatter as they vectored their way towards NHLA Headquarters.

Seems each was loaded with Lake Host survey sheets, and they were betting beers on who could get back to base and unload the secret data the quickest.

Please, for our safety don't tell ANYONE

"Heavens to Murgatroyd!" It's worse than anybody thought!

Tricky Dick
 

I know you believe you understand what you think I said , but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant...:D

Snagglepuss
 

Stage left already!

I almost forgot what this thread was about. OH..Oh yea: Now I remember. :)It's time to "Moderate"...Totally. SKIP....Do Your Duty. :D NB