Lake Markers
 

Hi Folks!

I'm relatively new to boating (4th season coming up). I've spent a lot of time on Winnepesaukee (even tho I live near Boston). Most of the people I meet are very nice and helpful. That's the main reason I come up (to get away from the city stress and be around people who act like they enjoy their lives)! Boating on the big lake is a blast!

In my efforts to NOT be considered "Captain Bonehead", I've talked to a lot of people, studied maps, taken courses and used common sense when in the water.

One thing that continues to baffle me is the meaning of the white/black and white/red markers. When I encounter them, I tend to consult the map, or use common sense. So far, that's worked ok. But I could be just "lucky."

The language in the NH boating book describes how to navigate depending on direction of travel. The challenge I have is that I never remember it!

If anyone has another way of describing how to handle those markers, it would be very helpful.

Thanks so much!

Jon

Lake Markers
 

This is how I was told and how I remember:

Red is hot. It is hot in the south and west so go south or west of a red marker depending on your direction of travel.

Black is cold. It is cold in the north and east so go north or east of a black marker depending on your direction of travel.


The exception is if they are solid red or black. Then it is a channel and you need to go between them.

Here's a link to the Boat-Ed website for NH. The markers you reference are toward the bottom.

http://www.boat-ed.com/nh/handbook/markers.htm

The trick I use to remember which side to pass on is that the red-topped markers are hot like the Southwest, so a boater is supposed to travel south or west of that marker. That leaves north or east for the black-topped markers.

Nor-easter
 

I like rose's trick.Mine is just the opposite, black and white remind me of the clouds when we have a Nor-easter. So north and east of black or south and west of red. Hope this helps.

I just remember BEN--black go east, north.

Rose, that is the one thing I got out of the class. The instructor said to remember red by the warm states south and west and the black by the cold , north and west. I thought that was a good way to remember. Of course you have to have a compass orrrr-a good sense of direction!

That's what husband's are for
 

My husband has very good eyesight, far sight anyway, and a very good sense of direction, so I look at the chart to let him know what's coming up. Those markers can be hard to spot, and the color hard to determine.

I hate to admit it, but my older brother taught me the trick with the markers.:rolleye1:

Jon,
Most of the time (95% or so) the object being marked is on the shore side. As you have figured out it's the other times that are the problem. Most of us follow our location on a chart until we become familiar with an area. The chart will show which side to pass on. The other problem is that this forum has identified a few markers that don't follow the standard red black logic. The chart is the safest way to stay off the rocks. Enjoy your summer.

I've never heard of this; it's a great way to remember them. Regardless of knowing which side I'm supposed to pass on, I always check the chart when i come to a new marker. If I know where I'm headed, I check a whole bunch in advance, so I don't need to keep slowing down.

Thank you!!!! These are EXACTLY the kind of tips I was looking for. I learned about Winnepesaukee's infamous rocks the hard (and expensive) way during my first boating season. Ouch!

I'm generally not a fan of shortcuts, because in the long run they don't work. I always check what I see against the chart if I'm not familiar w/ the area (its also useful, at times, to watch what other boaters do). But If I have a quick way of deciphering what the markers are saying, then I have a little more confidence.

Thanks for your help! I'll be reading this forum for more "anti-bonehead" tips!

Jon

And then there is the method I made for my own use.I use the alphabet.
Black (b) is closer to North (n)and East(e)
Red (r) is closer to South(s) and West (w)

I find this to be the easiest to remember.

RED___Wool___Sweater

RED__pass West or South

Dont be embarassed to keep referring to your chart or chart-plotting GPS to be certain. That's my habit in any tight spot.

If you dont have your chart handy for some reason, you can also watch to see what other boats are doing. With luck they'll know what they're doing if you arent sure of your self. The other boater's competence cant be guaranteed but if they dont hit anything there's a good chance they guessed right.

Good luck!

Alphabetic order does it for me
 

(B) lack
(E) ast
(N) orth

(R) ed
(S) outh
(W) est

Jonnfinn ----

BEWARE !!

I too use the rule of thumbs (color associations) mentioned above -- but remember it is a "rule of thumb" -- it will work 95% of the time. There are however a couple of "confusing" situations out there and the Map is your best ally. A perfect example of this (at least for me) is the black top's near FL# 30 (near Mink & Little Camp ilses). After time, I fully understand it's logic today, but at first it was an inigma as to where to safely boat.

OK, please explain FL#30 to me. Why is it there, it seems safe on all fours sides. Is it just a single rock?

Thanks!

Yeah. Agreed. It's not so much that I care what anyone thinks. My concern is that if I spend TOO much time loitering in a certain area while I figure out what I'm doing, that's also not a good thing.

I've run in to a few situations when it took me a moment to wrap my head around what the markers are saying vs. what the chart says. When they match, I feel like I can navigate pretty confidently. If they don't match, it usually means I don't understand what I'm looking at yet.

I suspect people boating for a lot of years will understand this thought: I've learned a lot about boating over the last couple of years. But mostly, I've learned that I need to learn a lot more!

Yikes! what did I get myself in to????

Thanks for all your input. Helps enormously!

we live in the North East, so I just remembered that one is black. Once you have your own way to remember it's easy.

It's shallowish and there's a rock south of it between it and Mink. Pass that one on the north side. The confusing one (for me) is the black topped spar just northeast of FL30 and it's companion balck topped spar. You need to pass between the two black topped spars to be safe.

I believe it is ok on all sides.Based on the Bizer chart,the depth does go down below 6 ft on the south side of FL 30,which I think is why the charts show the main route around the north side.Bizer does not show any rocks in that area.

Which way did they go?
 

The larger boats go north of FL 30 and I see many others go on either side. Dave R is right about the preferred route.

Dave, I thought that North of FL 30 on the side of Mark is one red top closer to the island and a black top "companion" to the right of it. If those are the two markers you are thinking about, I thought you needed to pass outside the black top marker, or between the red top and the island. I thought the shallowest area is between the two markers.

You wrote that it is 2 black tops and I don't see them on my chart therefore I'm not sure we are talking about the same place.

It is true that passage past markers is not always by the intuitive route. Check the chart. :)

I go that way all the time and it had the same effect on me until I memorized it.

For the longest time I had a mental block on remembering which sides to pass on which color buoy until I was able to remember "BEN" Black - East/North.

One thing finally dawned on me that made it a lot easier to understand how buoys are placed. That is, just because a bouy has a certain color top, doesn't mean you can safely pass on BOTH of two sides of it. For example, a black topped buoy means pass to the east or north, but it doesn't mean you can safely pass on BOTH the east and north sides - that all depends on what its marking and where that hazard is. Once I figured that out, it made it a lot easier to figure out what was right and wrong. A perfect example are the 3 black buoys lined up on the north side of Eagle Island. You'd better NOT pass to the north side of the first two!

One thing for sure is the lake will either keep you on your toes or it'll take your prop.

Ken

Its the companion buoy to FL#30 that is also black. So when navigating the preferred route, you pass between that black buoy and the black buoy off the tip of Bear. That, I believe, is the confusing aspect of it.
(That spot is a lot more clear on my old Duncan chart)

Ken

You are correct, the other black top I meant does indead have a companion red top. It's just that the 3 markers are in relative close proximity and the correct course is not at all intuitive. I have been fully comfortable with the proper route through there for years, but the first time I approached that spot was from Birch Island and I must confess that I found the concept of making a hard right turn and going between the two black spars a little disturbing. I had to stop and triple check my chart.

That route is my prefered way from Center Harbor to Weirs Beach/Meredith, just to avoid the no wake at the north end of Bear. I also route around the north side of Eagle to avoid the no wake at FL2.

You know, I see boats blast through that area on the north side of Eagle all the time. Makes me wonder just how bad it is in there; not enough to gamble though.

I did it once by accident on plane going into the sun (missed the marker). As soon as I realized where I was I had the conflicting thoughts of "Do I slow down in case I'm in trouble?", "Do I maintain speed to keep as much boat out of the water as possible?" and "How fast do I really want to be going if I hit something?" I recommend against people following my example ;)

A good reminder for jonfinn and other folks not to assume that other boats are taking an acceptable course.

I've seen that too. There may be 'gaps' big enough for those who know exactly where to go, but there's a bunch of rocks in there. I stopped myself from accidentally going through there one fall. As I turned the boat around I found myself going right around a good sized rock maybe 18-24" below the surface.

Ken

I think some of the problem is that the markers move with the ice. We have markers near us that have been moved so far around over the years, that it is hard to tell what they are marking. MP can only guess as to exactly where they go. I think only the people living in the area know the bottom well. A couple of years ago the black one disappeared never to be seen again.

Okay -- sorry for the delayed response......but we just got back from the Lake and our "season opening" five days boating.

Glad to know I wasn't the only one seriously confused by the FL30 area when I first started out (yearrrrrrs ago)


(kchace) there are no "companions" to black or red "Tops" ..... what you (I think) are referring to as FL30's "companion" is actually the aspect that makes that area confusing. Notably a black & red top pair just to the north-ish of the lite. This is one of the rare areas that "depending on your approach" you actualy split a pair of black tops --- which scares the hell outta ya the first few time you do it -- MAP or not!!

DaveR -- we have our place just east of FL#1 and watch the traffic off Eagle all the time. Your reffering to the FL#44 side of Eagle and there are many a boater who get my "God is on their side" award. That side of the island has numerous eractic rock configurations ... we've putted over there with the Jet Ski (best time is Fall low water)..... the closer you are to Eagle the more hazard but as Kchace said --there is no real logical "single hazard".

My best advice...

KNOW THE LAKE...Become familiar with the lake.

You can't always see markers in the distance, so be prepared where you need to go. There are several markers that make you scratch your head when you first see them ("Why is this marker HERE of all places?"). They are there for a reason, so plan ahead and KNOW THE LAKE...

and have fun!

FL30 is very confusing to most. The even more confusing marker is just off the tip of Bear in that same area. Where it is actually safe between the island and the marker when your minds eye says that can't be!

I know someone who has the 14', 300lb, wood spar complete with shackle hardware that served for years as the black & white, flasher #3 companion spar. A few years back it washed up on shore in December and the next year the Marine Patrol replaced it with a new and improved pvc spar. And, the MP did not want it back.....they said 'thanks, but no thanks.'

If the old spar could talk, it would say ' Ahoy, I ain't no garden timber, put me back into the lake!" Hey, there's no spar like an old, square, double tapered, lake Winni orig wooden spar...

Fl 30
 

It's not uncommon to see the occasional "panic stop" when an unfamiliar boater comes upon the less than intuitive 3 buoy triangle there. There are some boulders south of FL 30 but they're down at least 6 feet. I've stood on one on my tip-toes with fins on and I'm over 6 ft tall. Familiar boaters often cut the corner coming around Mink and ignore FL 30 altogether. Actually a safe route for recreational boats. Remember, some of these marked channels are there primarily for the tour boats given their deeper draft.

The single most common error is when boats go between the red and the black markers heading north/south, apparently confused in thinking they are a paired set marking a channel.... Nope. They're not solid red/black. See this mistake all the time. The correct path is to go either to the inside between the red marker and shore (RSW) (very counter-intuitive) or around the outside of the black marker (BEN) There is a shoal in between there (closer to the red marker) that late in the season could spell trouble for a big cruiser.

Actually, since flashers usually have companion buoys, I was referring to the companion buoy of FL30 which is black-topped. Its close enough to the black-topped buoy just off the southern tip of Bear that it's scary the first time or two through there. I think those two black-topped buoys are barely further apart than 2 of the 3 that are off the north side of Eagle that you best not be passing through.

Just another endearing Lake Winnipesaukee idiosyncrasy.

Ken

A suggestion, I travel that route alot. If your going easterly from the channel next to Mark island and want to go on the inside of the red bouy on the tip of Bear island, make a wide sweep first keeping in mind FL30. Years ago I didn't make such a wide sweep and met another boat coming through on a southerly direction. Luckily I was able to turn and continue easterly and he stopped. Its as close as I want to meet another moving boat.

Dave M

marker direction aid
 

Some time ago someone posted an attached file which was a simple circle, half black, half red, with N,E,S,W printed on it indicating the passing direction. I've searched but was unable to locate this post, if that someone or someone else remembers what I'm referring to, could they repost it or redirect me to the file? It was a good simple aid for folks that don't drive often on the Lake.

Thanks in advance.

I never saw it but was inspired to draw this.


http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...152/Marker.jpg

Look under new Bizer chart of the this section. Thread # 16 I think for the pie chart.

Lets Try This Again!
 

Where does this image keep disappearing to?

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo.../Marker.jpg?81

14' long? Wow I had no idea those things were that long. Still, kind of a neat thing to have. Some day it may be worth a few bucks....

Addtional Stripe on the Red Top
 

jonfinn & Rose, At the risk of duplicating any other responses here I might add that a good way to discern the difference between the black tops and red tops is that the red top sports and additional stripe just below the red top. This will aid you in the inevitable event that you are color blinded by reflected sunlight or during a venture out at night when the reflective tape on the markers pale when scanned with a spotlight or anchor lights (used intermittently of course).

We learned about these important features and hints at the NH Boating Safety class along with many other important rules of navigation (right of way, safe passage, etc.) from a seasoned instructor. We were also taught the red-hot-south-west and black-cold-north-east in that classroom session and it is good to see other perspectives in this forum. These are known as the Cardinal marking system and are only used by a very few states ( I think). It works for us here with all those pieces of the Granite State lurking about just below the surface.

Jofinn, you say you took some courses but I might suggest that if you do most of your boating here in NH that you should seriously consider a NH state classroom course. You just can't get this type of info on the internet in the depth and understanding that you get in a classroom. Additionally you get the facts on NH laws not some hearsay from other folks. I hear the prices for the classes may increase soon though. Still a bargain for safety on the water.

And I think it was mentioned, don't think the other guy barreling through is always right. I've seen some with shallow draft-on-plane (read jet ski's) cut the markers just to confuse those pondering their course. Those folks know their waters.

BTW it is not illegal to travel on the "wrong" side of the marker as anglers, and paddlers do it all the time for their purposes. However if you do, hope you have deep pockets for your marine mechanic just in case.

Nothing beats a compass of any kind on board and a chart is golden.

I've seen the red stripe, but never knew it's purpose. In the future, that'll help! Thanks!

I have taken some courses here in Boston area, and I will definitely take courses in NH too when time permits. I'm hoping someday to retire in the lakes region actually.

Lastly, it's very doubtful I'm gonna blindly follow someone without knowing the area, or following the chart and markers. The one time I was careless, I was renting a boat from Thurston's. I took a big chunk out of the skeg and it cost me around $600. Lesson learned. I was lucky actually.

See you on (hopefully) the right side of the markers! I'll be the guy in the little bowrider with the big grin!

I've seen you dozens of times on the lake. Man, you really get around! :D

AMEN!


There are many wanys to navigate the lake safely and they all have been mentioned here at some point.

Common sence seems to be the most impportant. But the little sayings to remember south and west for red..etc are good too. But having a (current) naviagational chart and using it. I don't care how well I know the lake, that chart is always out on the dashboard in front of me when underway, for at the very least a wuick refference. The only exception is when we're in Winter Harbor near our dock, or waterskiing, or something like that.


Also, a good rule of thumb, when in doubt: hug the marker...they are set up to allow for a degree of safe passage even if on the wrong side (only to an extent).

You know, I've used this technique many times in the past, but never really thought about the markers being set that way on purpose. Thanks for posting.

You know, C Duff, I always use to believe that hugging the buoys was a good idea too, but one year in the fall we did that and hit a rock. That was the year when the water was very low in the fall, a few years ago. I think what happens is when the buoys move with the ice, the MP does not remember exactly where they were and put them back in the wrong place. It was a stainless prop so was a very expensive accident!

I can think of a couple markers where doing that will absolutely cost you an outdrive!!! The rocks are right next to the markers.

I have been boating on the lake for nearly 20 years and can't for the life of me navigate using a compass and the rules. It might be fun to learn but I really don't think it's necessary. I just rely on the Bizer chart and at a glance there is NO confusion what side to be on.

I guess if I lost my chart I would be SOL though!!

Oooooh not a good idea! The markers do shift with ice and occasionally end up closer to the hazard. When in doubt turn around and go back the way you came. Hugging the markers could cost you a prop, drive, hull. :eek:

Perhaps I should clarify, I've used the technique when gunkholing, at very slow speed, while looking for rocks and such, not at speed. This was on Pawtuckaway lake too. There's no chart for the lake (that I know of), and some of the many markers are ambiguous. It's a beautiful, but very rocky lake. I use at least one of my three charts (two paper, one electronic) on Winnipesaukee at all times.

.........................
 

Do not hug markers! It's is correct that shifting occurs etc. and your approach is to keep 75' from the marker to allow for safe passage.

I guess I was not clear as well. Of course if you're going to hug the markers, SLOW DOWN and you do it knowing the dangers associated with it. And those dangers increase in the fall when the lake drops.

B&W Marker Near Goose Egg Rock
 

In all the years I've been on Winni, until today, I had never gone over to look at Goose Egg Rock. It's not far from our place in Senter Cove. It appears to be a single, large rock without much else around it. There is a black & white buoy about 40 feet from it but the rock appears to be south east of the buoy. This places the rock kind of IN the boat path. The rock is currently about 3-4 inches below the waterline. There is fairly fresh blue paint on the rock indicating a recent "hit". I think Marine Patrol should relocate this Black and White closer to the rock and so that Goose Egg Rock is clearly south west of the buoy.

I need to print, laminate and hang this on the handlebar of my ski. The lake is becoming a bit more familiar over the years but for some reason those markers will not stick in my thick head... Killer rocks are not much of a issue in the man made mudhole lakes we have down south.

The wife found a tear in her vest this weekend, I told her we would just have to go back to De Silvas and get another :) Missing summer already

I don't want to be "the heavy", but since you're asking the question, I'm assuming you haven't taken the NH boating course, and don't have the certification.

It is the law that you do. (Unless you have USGC Aux, Power Squadron or something equiv.)

If you have one of the equivalent certifications, I'd highly recommend brushing up on N.H. laws, as boating in N.H. is very quirky, and you will get pulled over and fined on Winnipesaukee for breaking laws that you would never otherwise know about.

If you don't have these certs, you must get the N.H. Certification.

http://www.boat-ed.com/newhampshire/

Just trying to be helpful... :rolleye1:

I guess I was taught using the "KISS"method. Every boat I've owned I would go to Thurstons and buy the decal for my dash or an easy place to see so I could never question which side to pass the markers.