Lake Winnipesaukee drowning....
 

Channel 9 (WMUR-TV Manchester, NH) is reporting on thier 6 PM broadcast that a Massachussetts man drowned this afternoon on Lake Winnipesaukee while allegedly in the (illegal) act of "skimming"....

They released his name, but no home town.

Skip

(the emphasis on "illegal" was mine)

Drowning...
 

Nothing on the web site yet. My wife and I drove around the lake today and did not see many sleds...

Sad day.
 

I am not sure how it happened however I know that then man has family here in the lakes region. I also know he had an aversion to open water, so I can't believe he was intentionally skimming. I wasn't there in person so I can't say for sure either way. The end result is the same, there is a family suffering tonight at the loss of a loved one. My thoughts go out to them. The snowmobiling community is pretty tight knit group and we hate to hear of a loss such as this.

That is very sad. Why can't people realize the dangers of that stupid activity? God bless his family.

Bryant Point - always unsafe, always skimmed
 

Vermont Channel 3 has the story http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=4426299&nav=4QcS and mentions that the incident happened at Bryant's point. That is the narrows that leads into the bay that eventually ends up at Greens Basin. It is very near a spot where another snowmobiler died last year at Ganzy island. Near Lees Mills. There is an "over land" route around the narrows because the narrows never freezes safely. Some years, even the shore near the overland route is not safe. Every year, there are lots of skimmer tracks through the narrows. Its not a short skim. You have to go about 100 yards - and you do it by choice, not by accident, especially at noon. Bryant's point is a classic Darwin spot. Hopefully this death will wake up other skimmers. Skimming is not a sport. I feel sorry for his family and friends, and hope that when the facts are better known, we find that it was an accident and not a lost gamble.

In general, the lake is very dangerous this year. Not only near rocks, but bubblers are melting more than normal. I saw a bubbler that melted the water a couple hundred feet out from the shoreline. Saturday night, six snowmobiles zipped by after dark, hugging the shore. They were lucky.

Skimming
 

Last year there was stepped up enforcement at the Gov. Isl. bridge. But as soon as the Fish and Game patrol leaves the "skimmers" are back at it. It should be known that there will be no rescue effort for skimmers, only recovery. Why should fire/rescue/enforcement people place themselves in harms was for someone who chooses to place their life at risk? It was not all that long ago Laconia Fire lost Lt. Miller testing cold water rescue equipment. The loss of life ANY life is tragic, but when you engage in life threatening activity a loss of this magnitude is always a possibility.

Fifty one years old? This was not a kid. This is the second accident this season where the snowmobiler was forty five+. Please be careful out there and wait for the snow and cold.

Disturbing trend.....
 

You make a very interesting point here, one that is beginning to show in statistical data. In particular, motorcycle accidents (and deaths) in New Hampshire are showing a disturbing uptick in this particualr age bracket, and there is concern that this trend will spread to other mechanized sport activities like snowmobiling and OHRV use. Many people are getting in to (or back in to) activities that they have never experienced, or only experienced as youths. And they are jumping on machines that have greatly increased in weight and horsepower with little training or experience.

Unfortunately, given the current ice & weather conditions throughout the State and a long range forecast with additional above freezing temperatures, the conditions are right for this type of tragedy to repeat itself too soon if people don't heed common sense and current regulations!

Skip

What a Tragedy...
 

The Union Leader article....

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...4-ef4d6f3c729a

The Concord Monitor article

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...601300348/1221

skimming
 

Not to sound un-sympathetic, but......All of us here knew this was going to happen again. Everyone has been so eagar to go ride their sleds after such a mild winter so far...but 2 1/2 inches of ice. I probably would have waited another week or so.
And why is this in the "Winter Sport" thread? Drowning and illegal skimming is not really a sport.
Just keep this thread open because you know there's going to be more.
:(

Very Sad
 

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/News...ath_013006.htm

Stay safe everyone, please don't take crazy risks.

I shouldn't say this, but after reading the articles, I have a hard time feeling sorry for this guy. I mean trying to cross 300 to 400 feet of open water in late January at age 51. That is just so stupid. He put a lot of the rescue people at risk. God bless his family, they are the ones that are bearing the brunt of this senseless act.

You're right, you shouldn't say that, notice I deleted what you said, I suggest you in the interest of good taste delete what you said. This poor guy's family is suffering enough. People make mistakes.

So, if it is true that he were skimming, then it's okay for him to break the law and you to chock it up to making a mistake and it's wrong for someone to say they have a hard time feeling sorry for this guy.

Skimming was a big issue on this website last year. It's not a new law with only a select few knowing of its existence.

Sadly, you deleted this:

These are all your words, not mine, that isn't what I said. I think a little compassion should be shown for the family of this guy. This guy didn't get up and say he was going to drown himself that day. I hope you are never in a situation where someone you love dies and holier than thou persons essentially profess that your loved one deserved to die because the person decided your loved one had broken a law.

Someone died, show some respect..

Snowmobile "ACCIDENT" over the weekend
 

Attached is a link to a story about this accident from Milford Ma. Doesn't sound to me like he was the type to try skimming. Sometimes accidents are just that unfortunate ACCIDENTS.

My condolences to his family.

http://www.milforddailynews.com/loca...rticleid=85362

Another near death, similar experience 10 years ago? Coincidence, who knows. Lets just say he did have a heart attack and the whole thing was just an unfortunate accident. I don't ride snow mobiles so maybe someone that does could help me out. Ice thickness 2 1/2 inches thick in places. Two thousand pound machine. I don't know, you do the math. When does common sense kick in. Maybe he didn't wake up saying I'm going to drown myself today, but maybe he could have said to himself as he hopped on his sled and ventured onto thin ice (open in many spots), how can I go about not drowing myself today.

???...Was ALCOHOL a factor in this ILLEGAL activity...???

Question...
 

There was no mention of alcohol in any of the news articles.

I don't ride snow mobiles so maybe someone that does could help me out.
 

The average sled is 450-650Lbs. and it is said that 3" of ice will hold sled and rider. That said, I don't know if I would ride on 3" of ice. Although many do.

Moultonboro Snowmobiling
 

I am not sure what area of the lake this fellow was from and how familiar he was to the Green’s Basin area he was. Maybe this could have been avoided with the purchase of a $5 trail map? The reason I say this is in the Moultonboro Snowmobile Club’s new Trail Map there is an exploded view of the Greens Basin area. Bryants Point and the entrance to Greens Basin are marked with a RED “X” and DANGER. When I started riding the Moultonboro trails and the Lake some 13 years ago this was the first area every one told me to be careful of because on the open water. I presently do the Trial Report on the Moultonboro Snowmobile Club’s Website, http://www.moultonborosmc.com .

I do feel sorry for this fellow’s family. Maybe it was an accident or maybe foolhardy play. My concern is for the next snowmobiler who does not know the area or follows a set of tracks in the snow and finds open water facing them before they can react.

This is how I start every trail report:

1/28/06: DO NOT ASSUME THE LAKES ARE SAFE.
USE EXTREME CAUTION WHEN RIDING ANY BODY OF WATER!

I try to update the report every Thursday.

WINNOCTURN

ps: I cropped the section of the trail map showing Bryants Point but it was too big to up load.

Read The Union Leader Article?
 

after reading the article in the union leader it does not sound like an accident.

goss said harper was only person in the group riding a snowmobile. he was trying to cross an area of 300 to 400 feet of open water. it sounds more like he was showing off to his four friends.

there is a local morning talk show host that has phrase for this kind of thing. "you just can't fix stupid".

winnocturn

Someone Died who didnt need to - someone died who consciously knew what he was about to do was risky. Looking out before 300 feet of open water on any day in JAnuary - even one above freezing, even one of those nice 50 degree days and then making a run at that open water with any other than a BOAT is idiotic.

I repsect the dead for sure - but when you make a choice to put your life in danger and tempt fate, challenge God, push the envelope, whatever you want to call it....I cant respect that decision.

I am sorry for his family and the tragic loss of life, especially so needlessly wasted in this act of bravado or whatever it was.

I'm sorry I started this debate. Maybe it wasn't a skimming accident. Anything is possible. I shold be more respectful of the dead. Hopefully, folks realize that the lake is a dangerous place at times. Please be careful out there. May Mr. Harper rest in peace and let his untimely death be a reminder of the dangers we face on snowmobiles.

Ice Thickness Chart
 

For all those who wonder " Is the ice thick enough ?" Please refer to the following chart. The accident is most unfortunate.....a human life was lost needlessly. Please wait for a deep freeze !! Be safe.

http://www.mvp-wc.usace.army.mil/ice/ice_load.html

Unfortunate
 

I fell very sad for this man's family. I was surprised to see it was a mature man (well, of mature age). generally I figure most of the water crossers are kids. When you are a teenager you really don't think twice about your actions and their consequences. Water crossing as we all know is not difficult and does not require high speed. The world record is over 100 miles on water and believe me he wasn't going 90 mph. I crossed approximately 150 to 200 feet of open water in Meader cove back in my college days. but this was not intentional. I was on smooth ice and there was a dusting of snow on it. I had very little traction to either steer, stop or speed up on. As I approached the expansive blackness ahead of me I simply thought the wind had blown the snow off the ice as it was only a dusting of powder. It was wide open water. I hit it going about 50 mph and crossed it safely, I did however begin to slow down as I approached the opposite side. Don't get me wrong, I nearly wet myself. I was not happy about it, but fortunately I lived to tell the tale. Even more fortunately, so did my girlfriend who was on the sled with me!

:look:

There, but for the grace of God go I...
 

My Cardiologist said, “ I’m not a betting man but tell me when you’re go snowmobiling again so I can place a bet that your going to die”… He went on to say, “that just because we fixed you doesn’t mean you’re fixed. If you get cold, really cold or breath in real cold air it will chill down your blood and your blood vessels will constrict, much like hypothermia dose to your extremities. Any restriction in your vessels and its instant hart attack. If you think this is bad, just imagine where you will be and how short the golden hour will be.” Well that did it for me, the sleds are gone and so is the dry-suit, no more ice diving.

I wonder how this played in this poor fellow’s untimely death. I can only imagine what my faith would have been in the same scenario. Ya, I used to do stupid things too, but foutunitaly live to tell about them.

I know what your thinking… No, I haven’t taken up couch jockeying… I’ve become a weekend carpenter, sort-a-speak… Now I know the true meaning to the phrase we have in the trades… “If you can’t be anything else you can always be a carpenter and if you can’t be a carpenter you can always be a teacher…” Well, okay I am learning a new respect for reading the ruler… I sure am glad no one is paying me to do this, I crack myself up when I step back and look at this rank amateurish job… The only words that come to mind are, “Is this the way my old friend Norm Abrams would have done it?”

local tragedy
 

you can debate this on and on...what i know is a good family lost a loved one ,a family known around the lakes region.i offer my condolences to the many nephews, their wives and children and the brother who has been doing business in the lakes region since he moved his family to weirs beach many years ago. please know there are people who are sorry for your loss.

Local News has conflicting story...
 

The local newspaper here in Mass indicates that this poor guysuffered a heart attack before going under. The conflicting story is that witnesses say he paused before going across the water, the other story is that he lost control while having the heart attack and veered into the water. Either way, still a tragic loss of life whether he the water had anything to do with it or not. My condollences once again to his family.

Vidio Of The Accident?
 

I recieved the following yesterday. There was video being taken at the time of the accident. It might clear a lot of things up?

Attached is the link to the video clip shown yesterday on NECN. http://www.boston.com/news/necn/New_England/
Click on the video " Man catches snowmobiler's accident on tape"

WINNOCTURN

When will people learn???
 

Very disturbing video....but it clearly confirms the order of events as released by the investigating authorities at New Hampshire Fish & Game.

Every single snowmobiler that takes the snowmobile safety class in New Hampshire should be required to view this tape....if it only prevents one more tragedy it would be worht it......:(

Skip

Thanks for posting the link to the video. It took 11 minutes to get the gentleman out of the water, plenty of time for severe hypothermia to set in. See the chart in this link.

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hypothermia.htm

Certainly the stress of the situation in addition to the cold probably hastened the gentleman's death. Sincerest sympathies to the family and friends.

Hopefully a painful lesson to be learned for all of us.

Thanks WINNOCTURN for posting the link. It is very disturbing, as it should be.
I very much like Skip's idea of this being required viewing to those taking the safety classes.
It really is a shame that WMUR didn’t pick up this story too. This video could make a snowmobiler think twice about heading for open water.

Worried About Derby
 

Fascinating video - thanks so much for posting the link, Winnocturn. Given the weather forecast, the ice still looks iffy even for the one week postponement of the Derby. Everyone should make an extra effort to warn sledders of the increased danger potential this year.

Video
 

I just tried to view the video and it appears to be gone, is it available anywhere else?

Try This
 

if you go to the necn site open any of the vidio stories listed. when it open there should be a "search" box available. if you type in the name of the story minus the quotation marks it sould find the vidio clip.

winnocturn

In an unfortunate turn of events this snowmobiler's brother was just killed in a car accident this week. Two brothers in two weeks.
http://www.milforddailynews.com/loca...rticleid=86022