Lost Our Loons
 

Having lots of spawning fish around our beach and dock area, we enjoyed mom, dad and baby loon fishing every afternoon. They showed up on time every day and provided us with lots of enjoyment and cool pictures.
But on July 2nd or 3rd our neighbor informed us that the Loon Center was sending a biologist to tag the female loon at night. The male had apparently been tagged and this was to take place around 10;30.
We have not seen or heard a loon since so its pretty obvious that they were distressed. I emailed the Loon Center for an explanation and did not receive a reply

Lost our Loons
 

I'm sorry. Loons are a great source of pleasure to many people living around the Lake, and to others who happen to see one while visiting. That sounds like strange behavior by the Loon Center. I hope they answer you with an explanation.

Loons are in different places this year. Just outside Hanson Cove are two nests with at least 3 babies—right at the channel coming out of the outer basin. We've never seen them anywhere near there before, so maybe the Loon Center is tracking anomalies?

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This is troubling behavior from the Loon Center.... a pair with a baby shouldn't be touched, for many reasons.... While I understand the desire to tag loons to monitor aspects of their life, it isn't something that is really needed or important.

I hope the loon center provides an explanation..... but at the end of the day there isn't one..... just another example of good intentions going to far....

We’ve seen ? the same pair of loons for many years…but yesterday was the first time we’ve ever seen a chick. Very exciting.

Yes it is, my wife and I spend a good part of our time watching loons from a distance.... flight training can be especially interesting.....

Without knowing TLC's reasons, I think it's premature to assume the worst.

Everything I know about TLC is good stuff, but it would definitely be nice to get an answer.

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While I will agree that most things with the Loon Center are good and they do a tremendous job. Tagging animals of any sort, where it requires capturing them in the wild just to tag them is not an acceptable practice. Tagging an animal that has been rescued and then prepped for release is a different story.

Its not just the Loon Conservatory that does this, you see it all the time.....at the end of the day its just not a good thing..... Now if you can tag the animal with out capturing it they way they do whales and sharks then it is another story.....

Do you know more than was posted or how/why TLC does what they do?

There is not enough info in the OP to know if anything is amiss and, like I said, I'll assume the best about TLC until I hear otherwise.

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TLC does what every animal conservation society does, they try and learn more about the animals, one way the do so is by banding an tracking animals just like any other animal conservation society.... In general it is not a good practice to trap wild animals just to track them, end of story period. It causes them stress and anxiety, and can lead to adults abandoning off spring..... If they felt they need to tag the second adult they could have waited..... I am sorry if you feel offended that I would call out the TLC on a bad practice, but it is what it is....

If you think I am against the TLC well then your dead wrong.... I have and do feed them information when prudent based on the discoveries my wife and I find well observing loons all over the lake.... Just because I support them doesn't mean I have to agree with all of their practices....

I'm not offended, and I didn't think you were against anything but the banding.

My only point was that the OP hasn't got an official answer or explanation and that I think TLC has done enough good to wait out the answer or assume the best.

I would do the same if someone posted a question or complaint about any other good organization/restaurant/business.

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Certainly not against the loon center. They mean well but think they are using bad judgement to disturb loons at night for banding.
Not sure how much more info is needed. Bottom line is that the family has not been seen since.
Loon was banded by boat at 10:30 pm after notifying neighbors.

The info needed, for me at least, is why they do what they do.

They must have a reason for the timing, banding, etc. right? They work with multiple organizations and have been around a long time (according to their website, have been banding since the 90's) and I've heard/read almost nothing negative about the organization or their practices.

Edited to add: every article I could find about banding loons identifies the best timing as ~10-12 PM and that the best results are with families because they dive more. Sounds like the LCT is right on:

https://www.republicaneagle.com/news...2ed007396.html

https://vtecostudies.org/blog/banding-loons-by-night/

https://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2...servation.html

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/midnight-banders.htm

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They banded a couple of pairs here and they did it at night. We actually heard the loons screaming once. Obviously they don't like it.

Yes the banding is always done at night, because that is when they have the best chance at being able to capture them..... Yes they have been doing this since the 1990's..... Don't get me wrong, I think that the LTC does everything correctly.

My statement over banding or placing tracking collars on animals of any type is the same. I don't like the practice, as humans we are interfering where we shouldn't..... The human race is all up in arms because with cell phones, RFID, and other assorted devices, we can be tracked..... but yet we force it on animals....

Anyways enough of my soapbox.....


In other news, we saw a family of four swim by last night, and a congregation of loons this morning (it look like there where about 10 that came together for a short period of time....)

I generally agree with Think that it's silly/arrogant for amateurs to pit themselves against pros. But I have to admit you raise a great point here. We should want to understand not just whether the banding was done properly, but also why the benefits of banding in this situation outweigh the risk and stress to the animals.

Great thread! This is the kind of debate we should be having :)

There's definitely a line to be struck between nature and interference. Given the renewed populations of loons in my lifetime, though, I absolutely have to lean towards what TLC and other organizations have done/are doing.

The only reason Sam—we—have loons to discuss is the result of direct action.

Read those articles—what they've discovered about loons as a result of banding/tracking is pretty big.

Side note/addendum: my new puppy had a thermometer stuck up her butt yesterday and some hair pulled out of her ear canals. She didn't love either, but one will keep her ears from infections and the other discovered giardia—both of which could make her life much more unpleasant/short if left untreated. Sometimes interference is essential.

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Giardia will ruin your day too, be careful.

Absolutely—thanks!

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Sorry but I disagree that we only have loons because of their actions.
I've been on on the same bay since the 70's and the loon population was more robust in previous years.
I read the links and found them disturbing.
They net them at night with flashlights, wrap them in towels, take a blood sample, feather sample and band them before releasing. That is traumatic to any bird or animal.

Totally anecdotal—there are far more loons today than in the recent past. They've been listed as vulnerable in NH for, what, 40 years? 50? And now they're listed as stable.

And, yes, nobody likes to invade nature, but—in my estimation at least—species survival > small-scale trauma.

We clearly disagree on this—I have faith in those who serve to protect our wildlife populations and, especially, those populations that are endangered by human activity.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Ut6_uHKerYdGLo

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...dbbdf7ff9f.jpg

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Defending the LPC
 

The loon center will no doubt provide their side of the story and I'm sure it is a good one. From what I've learned from LPC, the only way to tag the adults is to do it while they are protecting the chicks at night. Otherwise, they can't be captured. Non-breeding loons are not tagged. The tagging allows the scientists to record which territory a loon nests on, when they move and how many chicks each tagged loon produces. It would be a rare event for the adults to abandon their chicks after the banding process. While no doubt traumatizing, exhibited by the loon defecation that the intern holding the loon experiences, loons stick around and often don't mind being near humans.

Since artificial nests are a primary source of loon chicks in NH, the tagging goes along with the preservation of the species. Without the Loon Center, breeding would occur more to the north and we'd have fewer loons in NH. With the recovery of the eagle population, it is even more important that humans help to protect loon's reproduction cycle, because eagles attack loon chicks. Humans are responsible for much stress on the species, especially with shoreline development, water level changes and boat wake, so it is only right that humans help preserve them.

So this is discussion is very good in my eyes... we all have view points as different as they maybe. While I have said my piece about the banding... Lets talk about some of the initiative that the TLC has done that have most certainly been effective in helping to restore the loon population:

1- working to create protected sanctuary locations to promote loon breeding in the wild
2 - the very successful floating nests that they have located around the lake, specifically adjacent to some of the sanctuaries.
3 - working to get rid of Lead fishing weights
4 - rescuing and rehabilitating loons in distress.

How much have these initiatives help bring back the loon population, that is hard to tell.... but they have had an impact.

Agreed. I would add boating etiquette/advocacy to that list.

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All good points LI ..........but 1,2 and 3 do not require disturbing them.
Only #4 would require contact and the is ,of course, a good thing.
We appreciate TLC just think the tagging is ill advised

I'm pretty sure TLC would assert that the tagging is the only way they can track loons rigorously enough to know if the first 3 items and other interventions and human impacts are helping or harming, and by how much. It's the difference between a data-driven approach and just sort of hoping for the best

I am not sure how useful the tagging has been in that regards..... One of the big initiatives to understand the loon population and weather it is continuing to grow or not, are organized counts of the loon population which happen yearly. These are done with the help of volunteers, who observe for several hours on a specified morning, and take notes about how many loons where seen, and where. As I recall the do also try and specify if the loon as been tagged or not.

To my knowledge, to make the tag useful, that have to get right up and personal with it..... which would mean re-capture...I have not heard of the TLC doing this... where the tags become useful are when dead loons are found they can put together a better time line of the loons life....

Hello all, we were alerted to this thread by one of our volunteers on the lake and wanted to take the chance to respond. We appreciate all of the thoughtful debate going on here and are glad for the chance to weigh in and answer questions!

First, SAMIAM, we're sorry to hear that you sent us an email that went unanswered! We have searched our email account (assuming it was sent to info@loon.org?) but have not been able to locate it. During this time of summer, when the number of emails we receive is quite high, individual emails can sometimes slip through the cracks. We always want to answer ones like this one, which express concerns, and would like to find out how yours went unanswered. If you could send us another email, from the same account, that would help us troubleshoot why we can't seem to find it (in terms of if it got caught in a spam filter, etc.).

We have only banded two loon families on Winnipesaukee this summer, and both are still present on the lake and have the same number of chicks that they did on the night of banding. Based on the circumstances you describe in your initial post, it sounds like you may live on the 'Black Island' territory, where we banded on the night of 7/10. I am happy to report that both Black Island chicks are still around! They were brooding close to Black Island at least through 7/15, when they were last seen in that particular spot. Since then, they have been brooding the chicks a bit further north, almost closer to Langdon Cove. Brooding areas can sometimes change year to year (as another user above noted) due to things like food availability, human activity level, etc.

Regarding all of the questions surrounding the practice of loon banding: There are a number of reasons why we band loons. First, banding allows us to learn more about important life-history information about the species as a whole. Things like: how long do loons live, at what age do they first reproduce, how many chicks does the average loon produce over the course of its lifetime? All of these things would not be possible to determine without being able to identify individual loons. And these life history characteristics are important for prioritizing conservation efforts. As an example, because we know that loons are a long-lived species with a delayed age of reproduction (not breeding until 6 years old, on average) and low annual reproductive output, we know that ensuring adult loon survival is key to sustaining and growing our loon population. This has helped us to prioritize dealing with threats to adult loon survival, such as lead poisoning, as a major part of our program.

Banding healthy loons also helps us improve our ability to evaluate and treat rescued loons. Each time we band loons, we take a small blood sample from the adults. We also weigh the adults and the chick(s). We analyze the blood samples for things like packed cell volume, lead level, and total dissolved solids, all measures that can be used to evaluate the health of a loon. In taking samples from healthy loons, we establish 'normal' values for each of these parameters. These normal values can then be compared with those from loons that we rescue, allowing us to assess the condition that rescued loons are in (how far below a healthy weight are they? How does their packed cell volume or total solids compare with that of a healthy bird?). This allows us to evaluate the condition of rescued loons, determine whether rehabilitation is necessary, and develop a treatment plan.

Additionally, resights and recoveries of banded loons on the ocean help us to determine where our loons go during the winter. This helps us gain a better understanding of potential threats that they may face when not on our lakes.

Finally, samples from banded loons are sent to collaborators to contribute to several research projects that help the species overall. One project that NH loon samples are being used for is a collaboration to study the emergence of malaria infection in common loons. Another collaboration involves trying to find a test that can accurately diagnose aspergillosis (a fungal respiratory disease) in common loons. Loons are very prone to aspergillosis infection when in captivity, and there is not yet a test that diagnoses it accurately. Sending blood samples to each of these collaborators helps bolster these studies, both of which are going to be very important for loons as a species.

We have an article on loon banding that we wrote up for our 2021 Summer Newsletter—you can find that here for more information:https://loon.org/wp-content/uploads/...1-mmpweb-1.pdf

We also have a talk given by our collaborator on the malaria research aspect. That can be found here: https://youtu.be/aOu6nlNMS5E

We are glad to answer any follow-up questions that anyone may have.

Thanks, LPC—great information. And thanks for all you do on behalf of our loon community—they're very special birds and make being on the lake that much better!

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Over here on Winnisquam we also have quite a noisy pair with two chicks


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We're Not Supposed to Have Golden Eagles Here...
 

Over here at Winter Harbor, we have just one. He keeps to himself except to announce a Bald Eagle warning: a short "ah-OO!"

(Usually when our resident Bald Eagle juvenile coasts by).

I think he's a Bald Eagle juvenile. He's VERY large! :eek2:

The same warning also greets ultralight aircraft. :look:

Those eagles make me worry about the baby loon.

Thank you for your response and the work that you do. I used "contact" on your web page to send the email.
Also I neglected to mention that I am on the north end of Winnisquam in the split rock area and have not seen the loon family since the tagging. We'd feel much better if we knew that they are ok and just relocated.

Attachment 18225

they are barking this late morning


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SamIAm, thank you for the extra details regarding where you are, and my apologies for assuming you were on Winnipesaukee.

There were two loon pairs that hatched chicks on Winnisquam this year—the pair at the far north end (the Sanctuary), which hatched 1 chick, and the pair that hangs around the 3 Sisters, which hatched 2 chicks. We did go out on the 3rd of July and captured and banded the female at the far north end. Interestingly, the place on the lake where we found and caught the loons was much further south then where they usually brood, which may help to explain why you stopped seeing them around your place at that time.

We always follow up on the families the day after banding, and the family was together and looking just fine on the 4th. About a week later (around July 9th), the chick did disappear, with credible reports from observers that an eagle had taken it. Each year, at least a few loon chicks are predated by eagles, and at nearly a week after the banding, it is unlikely that any residual stress from banding would have played into this turn of events.

I'm sorry to have to confirm that the chick is no longer around. We are glad to answer any follow-up questions.

North End Loons
 

I believe that pair on the north end of Winnisquam lost their chick on 7/4 to an eagle. The parents were screaming all day and night searching for it. Hopefully I am wrong but we haven't seen the chick since, just seen the other loon family by 3 islands.

oops, edited for timing, looks like the previous post confirmed my suspicions, so sad.

These are the saddest posts ever.

LPC: can you tell us how many loon chicks are hatched each year and how many/what percent typically survive?

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I dunno...I'd say run over by a jetski or poisoned by lead fishing gear would be the saddest. Eaten by an eagle is more circle of life. Remember that we're lucky to have eagles back from the brink from DDT

First: Ok, John.

Second: I still think it's super sad to think about a tiny little fluffy buddy being picked off by a big 'ol mean angry bird. Circle of life or not.

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Be it because of the circle of life, or because of a boating accident.... loon chick dying isn't a fun event. But hey it is nature. Several years ago, we watched as a nest was destroyed by wave action, on a beach.... we went by the 1st time we saw the egg and what looked like the parents trading places..... The second time we went by the egg was not visible and both parents where out in the water, making some horrific sounding calls.....very sorrowful ......

LPC, you do wonderful work, I am big enough to admit that we can agree to disagree on banding.... My wife was elated this year to watch the loon cam, and see the two chicks hatch..... and then venture from the nest.... I wasn't sure I was ever going to get her away from the screen..... It was also nice to have two successful nests this year between LI and Moultonborough Neck.....

I feel the same way.

Thanks so much for providing details. Feel much better knowing that they just moved down the lake a bit. I posted a video two years ago of an eagle harassing two chicks right in front of our home so those things do happen in nature.

Unfortunately, it's not just the eagles. We had one chick hatch on Merrymeeting this summer. It lasted about a week before, as near as LPC can determine, dying from a spear wound to the chest. Most likely from an invading loon looking to take over the territory. Unfortunately, these territorial battles are sometimes fatal for both adults and chicks.

As my wife often comments, "Don't they know they are endangered?!!"

Golden Eagle?
 

IBoW is currently reporting a Golden Eagle ! :eek:

(Golden eagles are similar to, but heavier, than Bald Eagles). :look: