State Police absorbs Marine Patrol!!
 

If an amendment to the House budget bill that is being voted on tomorrow passes, the Marine Patrol will be absorbed by State Police!! The amendment also eliminates the salary of Dave Barrett, the director of the Division.

This is a serious blow to the lake and its users if you ask me! My $$$ is now going to an agency that focuses on the needs of the lake. State Police will see marine law enforcement as an after-thought. And if you think Marine Patrol cops are heavy handed...just wait.

You also have to ask if this isn't just a move to take the $$$ that Marine Patrol just received from the registration increases to cover the serious deficit facing the State Police.

And to all you new republican/free stater representatives who are waving the "no new fees/taxes" flag, what do you call the 1 million cut from the Marine Patrol budget thats going to the general fund?? In my opinion, that 1 million of reg $$$ now becomes a tax. I don't want my boating money to go to the general fund until snowmobile dollars, hunting dollars, and other recreational dollars go there too!

It was just a few years ago that the NH Lakes Assoc. faught to change the funding source for Marine Patrol from the general fund to dedicated funds. Thats because MP was always an afterthought, never had money, or enough people. Are we going to see the old wooden buoys again? Dim flashing lights? And the lack of officers that we experienced year after year?

Looks like this will be a lost cause in the house, but I'm emailing my reps tonight. Lets hope the Senate has more sense. My two cents...what do you think??

Sorry,Winndow,but as president Obama said "Elections have consequences"
The people of NH made a decision to elect people who would stop the deficit spending......I will be contacting my reps to encourage them to make the change.

I would agree with you if Marine Patrol contributed to that spending...but not one dollar is spent on Marine Patrol by a taxpayer that doesn't register their boat. This is a user pays, user benefits arrangement.

If you want to argue that boat regs should be cheaper...ok. I still think the boat reg is a bargain but I respect other's opinions.

I guess the question really should be...do you want your reg $$$ going to help the budget woes in Concord?

If the State Police assumed the role of Marine Patrol, I wonder how they would handle the part-time duties of the summer officers? The staties seem to have a "we want it all and then-some" when it comes to perks and benefits.

I also could see much more of a police state with the cops looking for revenue "ideas" to justify their existence. This change would impact everyone from shore front owners to weekend boaters.

Will it really save money? Yeah right, don't hold your breath as now the Concord crowd already sees boaters as easy pickings for fee changes. Wouldn't surprise me that the state police would use this as a reason to get larger and before you know it, fees would go up again. If this happens, I will bet $$$$ that the water patrols end up with suped up boats. There go your fees again. Concord can't control itself.....

The Future???
 

I can see it now, the NH State Police Submarine Squadron for hidden speed traps in the broads? :D

I hope I can use the word "speed" without a stay in the penalty box?

I have no idea why you are all so worried. Don't you remember how smoothly they handled the integration of the State Police with the Highway Patrol? Not to forget how professionally the Troopers treated the Patrollers by co-ordinating speeding checks.

No cause for alarm, people!

Things keep going the way they are...a few more years the Staties will be collecting taxes and visiting your house to collect them.:fire:

Saves Mailing costs
 

At least you wouldn't have to pay the $8.34 cents to mail your check ( the way postal rates are going...but that is a whole different thread for a different forum :yawn:.) :D

It's not clear to me if this is a net good or bad change.

On the pro side:
Economies of scale, save the salaries of one director and staff, maybe combine some offices of the Marine Patrol with State Trooper barracks. A bigger pool of officers may allow a reduction in total count.

On the con side:
Loss of accountability. Fees should be tied to the people who dervie the benefit and the agency providing the service.

Boats for all
 

If the NH State Police absorb the Marine Patrol, will that mean that the new statees who patrol the lake now get to take their boat home like they do their cruisers.:confused:

Can you imagine the line of cops to get those jobs:emb:

Where will they get their donuts
 

Don't understand this, there aren't enough drive up donut places on the Lake for it to work! :laugh:

Also on the con side: will they have any nautical knowledge? Doubt it!

outcome?
 

So what happened? According to the OP, this was supposed to be determined March 31st.



Peter

Love it!
 

I just got off the floor! That's TOO funny!:D

The Breeze
Wave 'cuz I'll be wavin' back

amphibious state cruisers???
 

Maybe they'll patrol using amphibious state police cars.

I suspect it'll probably still be run the same way, using the same officers; and it'll just be a branch of the SP. I just can't see them hiring a bunch of new state police for seasonal work or moving state police into MP jobs and reducing road patrols over the Summer.

New Boats Too
 

And they have new boats

I think you might be on to something. In Boston they are talking about making the MBTA cops State Troopers. As expected, the troopers aren't exactly doing cartwheels over the plan.

I remember those - the Amphicar there was one at the Lake in the '60s.

Beware
 

It seems like NH is becoming more like Taxachusetts every day!!!

I dunno. They just got rid of an entire layer of government and moved the function of it to an existing entity, making the government smaller. Sounds exactly unlike MA to me....

nostalgia
 

Just think for those that were on the lake in the fifties and early sixties. The lake police were by towns, the biggest patrol boat was the steel hull cabins and they took care of the bouys. We had officer Cates in Alton and I think he new every boat and family in Alton.

I recall coming home from the service in 1966 and I hitched a ride from Reading Mass to Alton Bay, if my memory serves me right took me about 2 and a half hours. Marine Patrol was sitting at Downings getting ready to do his eight oclock rounds. I hated walking on 28A at dark kind of dangerous, (and spookie) so I asked him to give me a ride. I was in uniform so he did, nice guy. He said there was a boat up there he has not seen much of this summer. Well he pulled into our dock and I seen him eyeing the Puddy Tat I thanked him and see you on the lake.

Now we have or had marine patrol and who knows who they are. Next it sounds like State Police. I can see them saying step out of your boat you gonna put one leg up and touch your nose with your left toe while you count to ten backwards.:emb:

Thanks for the memories, sir!

This winter when I have been up to the lake I have gone down to the Glendale docks and there has been a State Police Cruiser parked out the Marine Patrol Headqoarters. So there is some sort of State Police presence there on the weekends at least.

The problem with burying MP into the SP is now the SP can easily get bloated or use funds that would otherwise go towards MP issues and use it for land based activities.

When was the last time you saw the police departments truly get smaller? Same thing happens when companies merge as they lose the ability to keep tabs in the details and silos get built.

I don't see any good coming out of this. Currently MP is tightly funded and controlled as a separate "exposed" entity. Once it is part of the larger SP and is hidden/buried in the larger budget that control and accountability will be lost. Very easy for the Govt Agencies to fudge the numbers any way they want. I fear this will over time become a haven for political hacks to get the cushy state job. Every politician’s brother, child, grandchild, nice, nephew, etc will be on a long waiting list for what will become high paying do hardly nothing jobs. 5-10 years from mow it will look like the MA Turnpike Authority – toll collectors making over 100K with more benefits and time off than you or I could use in a lifetime..

Just saying keep an eye out on this one.

Is that how the NH SP is run now? If it is there are bigger issues than the part-time MP. If it isn’t than the MP probably won’t create it. Was it ever confirmed that the current MP in the boats will be replaced or just overseen by the SP. On the flipside I would wager that most SP officers are highly trained in rescue, EMS, law enforcement, etc.

How about Fish and Game?
 

When we were in Mass. the Environmental Police (Our Fish and Game) were responsible for inland waters. They did all that our MP does except (I think) Aids to Navagaiton.

Wouldn't it make more sence to merge the Marine Patrol with Fish and Game?

Their duties are more similar than the State Police, and they share the waters already. When someone drowns in the Lake it is the Fish and Game that does the recovery.

On the coast at the CG station you will see MP boats docked right next to F & G boats. That sounds like poor management to me.

If they were to merge, the increased manpower would put more professionals on the lakes (instead of part timers) during the busy season and make more officers available during hunting and snowmobile season on the land.

To me, that change and not the State Police makes more sence.

Misty Blue.

Good points Misty!
 

You raise some valid points if there was to be a true merge, but that is not what is happening here. As always, the devil is in the details!

Currently the Marine Patrol is reporting to the Commissioner of Safety through Safety Services Division Head David Barrett. State Police, also part of the Department of Safety, reports to the same Commissioner via the Director of the State Police (the Colonel). If you look at the current chain within Safety you will see that the budget proposal simply eliminates Barrett's position and responsibilities and instead tranfers his duties and powers over to the Director of State Police, streamlining the Department of Safety. For those that may not know Barrett also has other duties besides just Marine Patrol, including overseeing things like tramway & amusement ride safety.

The Marine Patrol will still be staffed as is, with some fulltime personnel and the usual contingent of part-time officers in the summer. NH State Troopers are not being moved onto the lakes. As a matter of fact if the budget as proposed passes, there are corresponding cuts coming to State Police that will actually reduce the number of troopers, making it virtually impossible for the Colonel to assign new duties to a shrinking force!

Additionally, except for the obligatory name changes (dropping "Safety" and replacing with "State Police") funding mechanisms for Marine Patrol stay the same. As an example the money that by statutue is collected and expended for the Navigation Fund remains exactly as is, except for inserting the appropriate name changes. In order for the Commissioner of Safety to divert or change funding would require an act by the legislature, and the legislature does not do this in the proposed bill.

In the end the Marine Patrol remains within the Department of Safety as it has been. All positions below the Director remain the same. Just the chain of command is changed by NHMP personnel reporting to the Commissioner of Safety via the Director of State Police instead of the proposed eliminated Director of Safety Services position. State Troopers are not transferred to the NHMP and the legislation does not change any other duties or responsibilities of current full or part-time staff.

As has been pointed out by a previous poster this portion of the budget is consistent with the legislature's stated intent to lower the State budget by eliminating personnel and consolidating services.

Hope this helps clear up a few misconceptions floting around out there...:)

My Reg money is now a tax!!
 

The new budget also eliminates the non-lapsing status the Navigation Fund has always had. This results in a 1+ million cut to their budget over two years as I see it.

If thats the case...the BS that the hippocrates in the majority are preeching when they say "no new taxes or fees"...well folks you just created one!

Why should boat owners be singled out? Are hunting license revenues going to the general fund??-No. How about OHRV/ATV/Snowmobile reg money?-No!

As for the merge...like I said before, I just hope the Marine Patrol duties and responsibilities don't get lost to the other priorities of the State Police.

No and here is why.

Hunting and fishing licenses, as well as OHRV and Snowmobile reg goes to Fish and Game. If the state were to merge the fish and game into the mainstream government and thus have access to the budget via the general fund. The State of NH Fish and Game would lose millions of dollars in federal grant money annually.

There is a reason that Fish and Game departments all around this country are not tied into general fund budgeting and are seperate entities and that is it. This is a Federal requirement, it prevents a state from setting up a conservation department just to access additional funds for use on whatever.

Look it up on their site. The F&G receives 50K out of the general fund each year and that is it. All other fund raising is through license sales, registration of OHRV and snowmobiles as well as fund raising and donations.

The Link http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Insi...pie_charts.htm

I do not know what it costs to register a boat in this state, but I can speak to what I do know. Between my hunting and fishing licenses and registering my ATV (which is basically useless as there are very few places to use off private property) I will spend around $200 this year +/- $10 or $15, and I did that last year and the 13 years prior to that.

Anything regarding F&G in NH is a "pay to play" type of setup. I choose to pay for my licenses and reg and therefore I get to play. You are not paying for my access to these activities unless you also pay for a license or OHRV reg to F&G.

I am just answering the F&G issue, I have know idea about the other issue you bring up and I am sure someone else will be able to respond to that aspect of your post.

Personally, I think Misty's comment about MP and F&G merging would make more sense, but could they both operate on a budget that is solely self funded. I don't know, but F&G can barely fund itself now, let alone adding in the budget needs of MP. It would make more sense, but sense has never really been mainstream in Government.