How Many Amp Service Do You Have
 

How many amp electric service do you have?

Modern homes usually have 100 Amp or 200 Amp.

Some of the older camps have much less.

I'm old enough to remember when there was no electricity in camps.
And when electricity did come down the road (on poles).
I think the amp service was much lower back then.

200 is plenty for the average 3 bedroom home........100 might be a little skinny if you have A/C and a lot of appliances

Renovated our '54 house. Increased electric service to 200A and changed all the fuses to a new circuit breaker panel. With all the new code requirements for arc fault breakers in bedrooms, etc, it was the best decision. Do it once and be glad you have the extra capacity for anything in the future. Also be aware that new codes do not allow circuit panels in closets, etc. and main disconnects are now outside at the meter, at least here in Moultonborough. This is a tremendous benefit if you need to do any work in the panel, as once you throw the breaker, the inside of the panel is not live. Just my experience..........

Hummmm the main disconnect at the meter must be something that is really new... when did you do your conversion?

Oringally Power came in as a 60 Amp Service, way back when... Over time it has crept up to 100A and 200A services for residential property. Really 100A is fine for most camp applications... However as soon as you start talking about AC, Washers, Dryers etc. you really need to be at 200A service...

I agree with what someone else said... if you need to upgrade go to 200A and put in a nice Breaker Box... it is never a bad investment....

Good in theory.

But realistically, any kid can walk up and turn all electricity off. In the dead of winter.

Yep. When we finished our basement my contractor made the exact same observation. He called his guy that did the electrical work to make sure it was set up right and he confirmed that is code in Moultonborough. Pretty sure the reason is that the fire department can shut the power off without having to enter the house. Our house was built in 2005/2006 and it is set up that way. Not sure about the code in other towns.

We too have the main breaker at the outside meter location. House is in Moultonborough and was built in 2013. However, I have a lock which secures the cover over the main breaker, so I am not sure about the fire department issue, although the fire department could easily cut or break the lock. We do have a Supra key box at the house for the fire/police department to access in order to gain entry into the house without breaking windows or doors.

I just finished building a house this spring in Tuftonboro. Yes the outside disconnect is for the fire dept and its code. I built a garage a couple years ago and have 200 Amp in it underground. I ripped down the old camp last fall and rebuilt and connected the house to the garage. We went with 100Amp off the garage into the house. I have propane for cooking, dryer, hot water and heat. That combined with all the LED lighting the Electrician said no need for 200 amp in the house.

redundant
 

No need for an external cut off switch. The Fire Dept can shut off the whole house power simply by removing the meter.

I think you missed the point on the disconnect........it's required.- at least in tuftonboro

If the primary purpose is to enable the fire department to disconnect, then at least at my house when the main breaker is turned off, the whole house generator automatically comes on, so power is back on. There is a pretty simple locking mechanism for the generator which can probably be opened with a standard key or keys or simply forced open and generator then turned off.

Our condo in South Down was 100Amp.
Our house in NH is 200Amp, house in FL is 400Amp.

I could be wrong on this but I think the meter disconnect rule is an NHEC requirement. We built in 2000 and I seem to recall that this rule came along a year or two after that. (Remember discussing the "vandalism" concerns mentioned above.) It wasn't required by either NH or National electric codes in 2000. We installed a 200 A service as we have all electric appliances (dryer, range), the hot water heater, water pumps and some electric heat.

The disconnect at the meter is a NHEC rule. We upgraded in 2005 from 100 amp to 200 amp service and the disconnect was required. 100amp service would typically be fine at a camp but when you add in a sewage pump, electric dryer, a/c, electric stove, hot tub, etc the need to upgrade becomes real.

A home standby generator that comes on automatically almost certainly will be fueled by natural gas or propane, with a gas shutoff valve at the generator. Turn that off and the generator shutoff is nearly instantaneous. Then there is the shutoff valve at the propane tank. Even so, there seems to be some uncertainty in the wording in the NEC as to whether an external disconnect for the generator is required if there is another readily accessible means to turn off the generator nearby. A definitive ruling on this would be nice.

That is true about the propane shut off at the generator. Turning that valve off will shut down the generator quickly. My generator is located near the meter box so that solution would be obvious to the fire department.

pulling the meter is dangerous, most FD's won't do that

That would be why there is a provision for a padlock....

BT

I found out The requirement for the disconnect is a town requirement. The issue of the padlock is moot in my mind. Your are not supposed to lock it and even you did anyone with a screw driver could be inside the locked box in less the fifteen seconds.

The cover over the main breaker is equipped with a hole for a lock. I agree that breaking in would be a relatively simple matter, but having the lock might deter the casual vandal from simply throwing the switch. In my case, he or she would be surprised when the generator behind them fires up:)

60 amps and living the dream :)

60 Amps...60 Years...
 

Yup. Livin' the dream in the same spot since 1956. :)

A one-season cottage we use three seasons a year. :look:

Dishwasher is OneofUs, Clothes dryer is solar. ;) A/C is two Window-Shakers (used just two days this year). Heat is by woodstove, firewood supplied by abutting wood lot—provided by electric chainsaw and "Armstrong" labor. Doesn't everybody plug a Lincoln welder into their kitchen outlet? :confused:

Dave Smith Electric of Wolfeboro converted us to a 100 amp panel last Fall. Rewired the water heater, range, and some "custom wiring" I'd done years ago. :eek2: We should do an upgrade every 60 years or so. :eek:

Town moved a lot of utility poles around (again). :rolleye2: A lot of ugly gray PVC pipe now stretches across one side of the house. :(

What am I going to do with two big jars of 20-amp fuses?

:emb:

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What am I going to do with two big jars of 20-amp fuses?

Re-packaged into small plastic bags, old Edison base fuses like this would probably sell fast at the local thrift store because today, purchased new, they cost about six dollars/three pak at Lowe's. Plus, you can ask for a tax deductible receipt if the thrift is a qualified charity....and not a business....ala....just like the donald.

The switch I would think would be after the generator as well.....

With what I am reading in this thread it sounds like NHEC is the driver of this switch at the meter.... and the reason, is not safety related at all if that is the case.... They want to be able to easily shut your power off, and then lock it.... so that if you turn it back on, you have gone through effort to do so, and there lawsuit is easier to win, if you chose the wrong effort and did it yourself....

I frankly have no idea as to why the main breaker is at the meter box, but I can tell you with certainty that if the main breaker is turned off, the whole house generator immediately comes on and supplies power to the entire house. It may have something to do with having a long distance between the meter box, where power enters the house and the location of the circuit breaker box, which in my case is quite a distance.

I imagine the fire department wants to cut power to the house before they go in spraying water all over the place where there is live circuitry. If there is a standby generator, there ought to be a sticker by the meter/main switch saying so and where it is. I'd guess that standard procedure would be to do a walk around anyway looking for one, or they might hear it start up, although some are fairly quiet and might not be heard over the noise of a fire engine. They might also look for a propane tank and turn off the valve at the tank without knowing if supplies only the generator or also a heating system. Perhaps someone here who works for a fire dept will chime in on this.

A standby generator wouldn't feed into the system upstream of a main shutoff, as that would backfeed into the line from the pole. It goes to the transfer switch, in parallel with line power. On failure of line power (or throwing the external shutoff switch, as for testing the transfer switch/generator operation), the transfer switch circuitry waits briefly, then signals the generator to start. On receiving ready status from the generator, the transfer switch is thrown to disconnect line input and connect generator input. It has to work this way to protect power company folks doing line repairs.

Dick R is correct. There is a sticker on the meter box stating that there is a generator and where it is. In my case, it is near the meter box so it would be impossible to miss. As stated earlier, there is a valve to turn off the propane on the outside of the generator enclosure, so I assume that is what the fire department would use to eliminate the generator as a source of power.

Here is a copy and paste from an electrical DIY forum on this topic. The National Electrical Code (NEC) requires the main panel to be as close as possible to the meter and depending where you live it varies how far away it can be.

"The panel (aka the "service disconnecting means" on a main breaker panel) must be located immediately at the nearest point of entrance of the service conductors. See 230.70(A)(1). If you wish to locate the panel elsewhere, then you'll simply need to install a main breaker disconnect at the service entrance (inside or out).

The concern is not the FD. It's a safety issue long before the FD could ever get there. Electricity moves a little faster than firemen. The cable is "unprotected" until it hits the main breaker. The only protection upstream is the utility transformer primary fuse, and it can take a while a blow. If there were an internal short in the service cable inside the house (fire, lighting, screw, nail, rodent, etc...) then it would sit and burn until the utility fuse blows or the power is cut.

I have seen houses burn because this very scenario."

Your actually wrong desert dweller. Ask any fireman. It's for them.

That's what my contractor told me as well. Just also posting what the electricians website said.

I can think of someone that uses them :)

Most homes will run out of physical space in the panel long before they run out of capacity. The average family would be hard pressed to use 80% of a 100 amp service.

Smallest single family service I've worked on was 30 amps, 120 volts. As far as I know it's still in use today.

Interesting Blog,

We purchased a Camp/House in Pickerel cove built in 98, the owner decided 150amp service would serve, my electrician agrees as I was suspect to increasing it to 200amp, it's not as much about 100/200 amp service as it is about what you intend to run at any given time in your humble abode.
Service amps provide the power to run the multitude of things you may desire at any given moment, the start up of say a frig/dryer/AC Unit uses far more power than it sitting idle, 30amp service would be hard pressed to run a busy household, and cold is in, lot's of cold needs lots of power. :D

A lot of the decision in our putting a 200 A service in had to do with finding a 200 A GE panel loaded with breakers on the Home Depot clearance table for around $60 bucks if memory serves me...:D. It was great having the space we needed to do everything right the first time. Bought three nice ceiling fans the same way long before they were needed, great to have now!

How many AMPs...
 

Interestingly enough, you are both right, and I hate to see a skirmish develop over a safety issue.

For years and years, local fire departments usually had some staff who knew how to remove the meter on the outside and 'kill' the power, but this was inherently dangerous for unskilled personnel. To address the danger issue, the practice of putting the breaker outside at the meter was established. Throwing a breaker is much safer than removing a meter from the socket.

So, regardless of how the NEC reads, and notwithstanding the skill level of some fire department personnel, having the main breaker outside, accessible to anyone, is much safer in the long run.

Remember, when it comes to electricity, safety is the name of the game.

Here's a few things I've noticed... I am NOT an expert)

An old house in Nashua, with fuses, that needed to be brought up to code per the lender had the slots for the major switch left vacant and a small box installed under the meter. I suppose a redundant cut-off could have been put in if desired but I wasn't part of that conversation.

There is a tool that looks a lot like a limb cutter whose function is to cut a live-wire at the pole. I have seen these used at fires, perhaps because the meter was inaccessible or an exterior switch was not apparent.

And now a question... (not a job I would try myself)

I have 100amp service. Changing to 200 amps would make some things easier for me, like installing central air, without having to drop anything like the hot-tub. Do I need to get a second meter for that? I have heard it both ways. Any recent

Hot-Tub and A/C are wife's ideas. "If mama aint happy, aint nobody happy!"

I have 60A service and I have a mini split cooling my very mini mansion, no blown fuses in many years. Its all how you use it, not the size of the, errr, breaker :)

Kamper, usually an upgrade like that will mean changing out your entire service entry cable, meter socket and main panel. There's a pretty big difference in the conductor size from 100 to 200 amps for starters. Definitely not a DYI project.

Sure wouldn't want to be the guy cutting a live service with that tool. Having cut a live wire with my linesmans pliers once " back in the day", it gets your attention!

Thanks for your support!

Wow...that must be some house.400Amp will run a restaurant

It's probably slightly overkill, but since everything is electric it kinds of makes sense. Kitchen cooktop and oven, electric dryer, couple of A/C units, elevator, pool equipment. Not everything would likely be in use at the same time, but the house was built with a bit of an overkill factor (not by me, we're the 2nd owners).

Generally speaking, the size of the conductors coming from the pole to your house are sized for the service size.(60,100,200) At least the old drops were. I would think that if you were upgrading from a 60 to 100 of higher then your wire drops from the pole need to be upsized accordingly.

And probably I'd need a mast and external cut-off. I really hate that hot-tub!

Thanks!

Doubtful, In my years at the electric company down here in MA and from what I've seen working out of town, a utility generally won't change anything unless it burns up on their end. We used to use #4 aluminum and our standard now for residential is #2 aluminum or 1/0 for high draw customers. but if you have an existing #4 or #2 service they likely won't change it no matter how big a service you put in. Utilities get away with it because of open air rules for conductors and their ability to dissipate heat more easily.

As I understand it from a number of lineman, from a wide area of the country, the local power companies sets the standards on what they do, and are immune from the NEC on their wiring. This is why you see lots of different standards in the country.

The only code I am aware of that all utilities are held to is the National Electric Safety Code. I honestly have never read one line of it but I know our EOP's (electric operating procedures) reference it.

I upgraded my 60 amp service in my first house to 100 and absolutely had to have new drops put in. This service was original from about 1950. PSNH did not charge me for that either.

efficiency
 

Everything is getting more efficient as years go by so the need to upgrade services is mitigated somewhat. We have all LED lighting, efficient electric appliances, electric kitchen, Mitsubishi Split AC, electric hot water.....all working just fine with no brownouts or circuit breaker trips on 100A service.

Again I can't speak for everyone. There a million reasons why a service drop would be replaced and every company is different. If I rolled up to your house for a reconnect and found an 1950 service drop I'd replace the whole thing too.