New Moultonborough valuations
 

Brief sheets on revaluations of properties in Moultonborough have gone out, at least to some. Any early reports on how much things are changing relative to last time through? Ours went up, but I hear of others going down.

There is a number to call to make an appointment for a review by Vision Appraisal. We did that last time, but it seems a shame to have to take a day off, come up, and wait around, just to have someone talk to us for 10 minutes, something that could just as easily be done by phone. Is having to come up there midweek a means of keeping down the number of people who want to find out why something changed?

up, but just a little
 

Ours went up a couple grand, not much.

If you're doing extensive renovations to your home, I suggest you get a loud dog prior to the next valuation. The guy knocked on my door, my dogs went nuts like they always do, and his valuation was based on asking me "Has anything changed?" and my replying "Nope." My dogs wouldn't hurt a fly, but their barking is indicative of bloodshed and wrath. He wouldn't step foot in my house. I suppose that's ok by me.:D

My lot went down...In value...will have to wait for a tax bill. They make you drive up personally for a meeting hoping nobody will bother.

My lot also went down in value - no idea of the impact on the tax bill yet.

Ken

total valuation went down about 2%

You can bet on one thing, if the valuations are going down across the board, which they should considering the current state of the real estate market, the town will just jack up the tax rate to makeup the difference. Either way you end up screwed.

Total assessment went down 9.06%. Land value went down and the building portion went up.

Spot on Maxum
 

Bingo, Maxum you hit it right on the head.

This happened in my hometown in NH and our bill went up $600 (on an already ridiculous number) Anyway, any of you who are getting excited about valuations going down and expect a direct corrolation to your tax bill, GOOD LUCK. I've never heard of taxes dropping, but maybe this is the first.

My camp is on stilts with one and half levels(side of hill). My assessment went up. My wide's camp is also on stilts and it went up as well. Other camps the same size and with a full foundation went down. Just don't get the reason behind it but I'm surely going to talk to them about it.

Dave M

Not much change
 

Mine went up a few thousand. I guess with all the real estate crisis talk I'm surprised it didn't go down significantly. Hmmmmmmmmmm??? :confused:

As to the tax rate, the town will have to pay its bills. That's why the real issue is the spending. If spending increases, everyone pays more taxes. If spending decreases, most will pay less taxes.

The property evaluations simply determine on whose shoulders the burden falls. If your property rises in value, compared to most everyone else, your share of taxes will increase. If your property value decreases, compared to most everyone else, your will share of taxes will decrease. If everyone's property value dropped to 1% of its previous value your property tax wouldn't change (given fixed spending) because the town would still have to pay its bills and the relative distribution would be unchanged.

Could you imagine us all sitting around with a $10,000 house and a $4000 tax bill? :eek:

We have no reason to bitch about taxes in M'Boro. Unless you're lakefront. Then I and the rest of the non-lakefronters thank you;)

Ours went up. Maybe I shouldn't have built that shed and paved my driveway?:D I hate taxes but I'm glad it shows that my property value has improved....when I go to sell.

Non Voting Taxpayer ("Total assessment went down 9.06%. Land value went down and the building portion went up."):

Is that for your property or town-wide? If the latter, where did the numbers come from?
_________________
Still paying a lot of tax on someone else's money, and not allowed to vote on it.

Even the lakefronters have little to complain about in Moultonborough regarding taxes!

Building Permits
 

Itch'en for Bitch'en...
 

Vite Bene:

I do beleive that the Lake front property owners have a reason to bitch.

I have a lake front property but am a resident of Moultonberry. My kids went to the schools in town and I receive the services provided by the town 12 months a year. I also get to VOTE.

My neighbors who pay the same property taxes or more but who live away, say Hudaon or Derry, don't get the same deal.

None of us get town water, town sewerage or a full time fire department. Many of the lakeside people (most) have to maintain their own roads. In short, they get squat for their tax dollars. What's worse they have no say in how the tax money is spent.

Why not build an olympic size pool at the transfer station? How about an indor skating rink and ski jump on red hill? Who cares? The money just falls from the sky and plops on our heads! The people paying the bills can't say no!

It's like my daughters going to the mall! Swipe the card and dad can't say no but has to pay the bill any way! Gota love this town!

Sorry Vite. The "property owners" who can't vote (I accept that) and also can't talk in town meeting ( I do not accept that) have a true reason to bitch.

Not that it would help. No one is listening.

Misty Blue.

Someone is listening, Misty; it seems like plenty of residents want to exercise more fiscal restraint as is evidenced by the last town meeting. Maybe it's the beginning to the end of the competition between us and Meredith for cool buildings, non-lighted signs, and the like.:laugh:

I don't want town water or sewer, then I'll have town sewer and water bills, and people will have no choice but to connect to it when they have perfectly operating water and sewer contained on their own properties. That's a 'service' that's highly overrated, to me.

As to non-resident property owners' inability to vote, taxation without representation is a known drawback to owning a property at which you do not reside. Property owners in M'Boro or any other vacation town across the country are either residents or sources of revenue. Never the twain shall meet.

Misty,

Sorry that you took my post that way- I should have said comparatively speaking, Moultonborough taxpayers have little to complain about. I too, am a NVT in Moultonborough. Because of the larger tax base we get off easy compared to Wolfeboro or Meredith. Plus our town fathers seem to be a little more restrained when building municipal buildings (have you seen Meredith's community ctr or PD?

Where's Moultonberry?

Moultonberry...
 

...is right next to Mayberry, if I recall correctly. I think Misty has a Barney Fife issue:laugh:

none of us will be happy if we become a donor town again. Watch the legislature next year as to how they propose paying for the added education cost that they approved this past session

If the New Hampshire democrats running for state legislature continue their winning ways, then watch for an income tax used to pay for the county farm and state school items.

After that happens, the Moultonborough selectmen/women will say 'our Moultonborough property taxes have been slashed', so lets go build that community center/swimming pool.

ppssssst...the Meredith Community Center does not even have a swimmng pool...hee-hee-hee! :D How'd that get left out?:eek: Is there room out back for a new olympic sized pool?

Another NVT in Moultonborough checking in. My lakefront valuation dropped a bit over 9% which doesn't really surprise me. I would suspect that overall the property valuation in Moultonborough will drop, thus increasing the tax rate.

It has always amused me that anyone begging for funds in the town always points to the low tax rate as an example of how costs are contained. Either these people are slow on the uptake or they think the taxpayers are.

Compared to nearby Plymouth or Laconia, the tax rate for Moultonborough is much lower. In my opinion, this does not really mean that Laconia or Plymouth have kept their spendng down. What it means to the Moultonborough selectmen/women is that Moultonborough has a gigantic amount of expensive property. Like, Moultonborough has so much waterfront, and so many non-resident tax payers, that Moultonborough can afford a new community center and still have a low rate of tax/valuation.....ie 'the rate.'

So, when is it a good time to build a new community center? It's always a good time! Let's build it! Hey, Meredith has one! :D

Just, take a look at the Center Harbor town offices/police/fire/library as an example of public service buildings that do not break the property tax payer's back.

Just, take a look at the Center Harbor town offices/police/fire/library as an example of public service buildings that do not break the property tax payer's back.

I hardly think that's a fair comparison considering the size of the town (both population-wise and square mileage-wise) that has to be serviced by said buildings. Isn't there only about a dollar per thousand difference between Meredith and Center Harbor's 2007 tax rates, anyway? You're certainly getting more for your money in Meredith - Center Harbor's 'community center' has been waiting for a dose of lightning or a bulldozer on a rampage for years now. The vast majority of it's residents and those of M'Boro and Sandwich that go by it on a daily basis eagerly await the same :D

I think that's short for Moultonboro............

LOL Two plus!

I think a more fair comparison is Moultonborough's PD/FD station and town offices compared to Meredith's. I work with a fair amount of Police Departments from a station design perspective and I have seen fewer that are more lavish than Merediths.

As I think FLL noted, Moultonborough has so many water front and vacation communities like Suissevale, Balmoral, etc that the tax rates have remained reasonable- again comparatively. It is one of the reasons I live in Moultonborough.

I work with a fair amount of Police Departments from a station design perspective and I have seen fewer that are more lavish than Merediths.

Meredith PD never invited me:cool: in so I can't provide an ample assessment of our lavishness versus theirs so I'll have to take your word for it. Don't forget we have K-9 Officer Rony, the dog gets major points in the obvious competition between M'Boro and Meredith to have the coolest stuff.

Between our tax rate (thank you M'Boro for having the highest amount of lakefront square footage on Winni) and the fact that it's easier to get out of our Dunkin Donuts, I think we're winning :D

Nvt
 

I know this is a late post, but my assessment went up 17%. I have lakefront property and did NOTHING to it this past year. The assessment formulas used by Vision Appraisal assign properties into "neighborhoods". Any sale in a neighborhood impacts all the properties. We had one sale....and Vision applied the change in sale value to all properties in the neighborhood. Their process is flawed and the town does nothing to try and normalize things. I appealed to Vision at the meetings they held.... along with 13 other property owners who also saw the same percent changes. Vision did NOTHING. So, not everyone got treated fairly. I have no problem paying a fair share and realize I have no voice, but if the town keeps ignoring the non-voting taxpayers, there may be a move to press for voting rights for town budgets. Remember, this is why there was a Boston Tea Party. It is just not fair... and the "residents" should recognize that we all need to be treated fairly. Taxation without representation is not American. I will pay my 17% increase, but next year, if and when there is a lower sale, we will demand equality in lowering assessments.....no ifs, and, or buts from our officials.

Unfortunately, unless you declare Moultonboro as your primary residence so you can vote here AND if you come to town in March and physically attend town meeting AND vote no to the town budget you really don't have much say.
SB2 would allow ALL eligible voters a ballot whether physically present or by absentee ballot to vote the second Tuesday in March. it was defeated here last year.

Its no different for residents
 

There is a house down the street from me, up for sale at 133% its assessed value (Thank you C-21 :( ). If it sells for that, my taxes will (again) go thru the roof. I'm a resident, with the poorest house on the street. Vision won't listen, the town won't limit spending, residents and non-residents alike are equally behind the 8 ball on taxes. Abatements are a joke, if they abate you, they will have to readjust the whole town, to be 'fair'. I certainly feel for you tho :)

State Assessing Standards Board public forum
 

State Assessing Standards Board will hold public forum in Laconia on Nov. 10

LACONIA- The New Hampshire Assessing Standards Board and Equalization Standards Board will be holding a series of public forums across the state to hear questions and concerns on assessing and equalization issues from the general tax paying public. Taxpayers are encouraged to attend a forum and one will be held at the Laconia City Hall City Hall Chambers on Tuesday, Nov. 10 at 6p.m.

The chair of the Assessing Standards Board is State Representative and Selectman Betsy Patten (R-Moultonborough).
..........
....from page 11 of yesterday's October 20 Laconia Daily Sun

Most likely, the Laconia Daily Sun will be there to report about the meeting in the next day's paper. Public meetings like this are something that the LaDaSun does very well. So if anyone decides to take the time to go to the meeting and ask the board an intelligent question, it might just get into the LaDaSun's newspaper article.

For me, coming up with an intelligent question is a big challenge......duh! :eek: .....how about you? What's to ask....where to go...could be the best remedy is a lawsuit in the local superior court? John Q Citizen vs. Town of Moultonborough, Assessing Dept.

At the Moultonboro Selectmen meeting on 9/3 a resident was following up on a similar complaint about his property assessment unfairly increasing and was basically referred to the state to file a complaint, so good luck talking to the selectmen.
Here is the video ( it's in the first 10 minutes) http://vimeo.com/6485719

New residents
 

In as much as there is a lot of people in the baby boom generation,:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: perhaps there will be a whole bunch of people in this generation that will be moving to NH for retirement? Voting residents who are mad as hell? Hmmm? Wonder what they'll do?

Our assessment came in based on "replacement cost" rather than market value. I assume this is because it was new construction. However, a another new construction house on the street, with 50% more square feet and one more bedroom, came in much lower. There was also a sale one street over at 85% of asking price, and that is now its valuation. I appealed to Vision Events and got a very token reduction, but am still 10% above the most conservative (although biased) estimate I can come up with. The term replacement cost was a new one for me. The process for additional appeal is vague at best.

I feel your pain.
 

We were shocked to see how much our evaluation had gone up and armed with plenty of data to back up our questioning met with Vision Appraisal. We were more frustrated after the meeting and were told if we didn't like it apply for abatement in December. We have no problem paying our fair share of taxes but as of this tax bill we are paying as much as our friends are who are on the water. I'm sure we will be taxed right out of town when we become a donor town again. The Town Assesors office more or less said "Well you choose to build a house that size.(it's a 3 bedroom and no McMansion I'm mostly frustrated by the "attitude" of the Assesors office. They really need a class on "people skills".

Good luck with the "people skills" class, they are just government drones!

This will sound bad, but...
 

Why blame the Select Board for Vision's doing? No matter what assessing company the town decides to hire, there are going to be problems and someone will not be happy. Obviously, the Select Board's hands are tied and it sounds like they are doing the best they can to assist homeowners in getting their questions answered/problems resolved. Oh yes, it's the Select Board's fault that the folks at Vision Appraisal would not lower the assessment. That's logical

Next, I am happy to see that the post did not turn into an SB2 rant. SB2 lost 2 years in a row (enough said).

Lastly, and I know this will cause a stir, if you really have a problem with your property assessments and bills, you always have the right to move elsewhere - with higher taxes.

I watched the video and also read the minutes of the meeting and I think that the selectmen did the right thing by suggesting that the property owner take his appeal to the BTLA.

Selectmen from any community are not experts at assessing property and they have to depend on who they hire to do the job.

If you don’t want to watch the video, below are minutes of the abatement appeal by the property owner:

Brad Wolff, 2008 Abatement Appeal: Mr. Wolff addressed the Selectmen, reminding
them that he last appeared before them on July 2, 2009 regarding his denied abatement
application and the BTLA’s requirement that he request a Settlement Meeting with the
Town’s Assessor which occurred. Karel acknowledged that the Board reviewed the letter
sent by Brownie Jones, the Assessor to the Wolffs, with the Town’s counter proposal of
assessed value of $332,600, although Brownie still supports the original assessed value of
$344,800. Karel stated that the Board was also aware that the proposal was not
satisfactory to the Wollfs. Karel stated that she supports the Assessor’s counter
proposal. She added that if the Board agrees, the next step for Mr. and Mrs. Wolff is to
proceed with their appeal to the Board of Tax and Land Appeals at the original assessed
value of $344,800. Mr. Wolff stated that he was of the same understanding. He
explained that he feels the value should be lower than $332,600. He cited that the 2009
assessed value was an increase of 10% and based on his research of properties that he
feels are comparable, the assessment should be $312,600. Mr. Wolff added that the
Assessor’s letter did not provide him with any reason to support the proposed value of
$332,600. Betsey stated that she supports the Assessor’s decision and Mr. Wolff’s next
step is to make his appeal to the BTLA. Jim commented that he agrees, adding that he
supports the Assessor’s decision, and doesn’t feel qualified to change the assessed value.
By Consensus the Board agreed that the 2009 assessed value for property owned by
Bradley and Karel Wolff, Map 107 Lot 043 is $344,800.

Why?
 

Becaus the state hired Vision and the select board is part of government. Now the select board has to deal with this as we all know what flows down hill!
"The Select Board's hands are tied and are doing the best they can to assist", how? What are they doing to assist? When has any town when it comes to assesments/taxes do they try to assist. Not in my town!

With your comment of "you always have the right to move elsewhere", you are obviously of the opinion that we all should just take it up the you know what or move! No wonder NH is becoming Mass. north.

Assessment Process
 

As I read the posts, this is a "charged" topic full of emotion. So lets all try and take the emotion out of the discussion. We all live here, one way or another. Some can vote and others cannot.....that is the way it is currently. However, the process, in my opinion, is flawed. The process starts with Vision mailing out new assessments. Then, if you are unhappy, you can make an appointment to meet with Vision. However, they make no changes unless their cards are in need of update/correction, such as you have fewer bedrooms, or have an unfinished crawl space and they have you listed as having a full basement. The only discussion about flaws in the process must wait until the December tax bills are mailed and then you file for an abatement, along with collecting all sorts of data, including hiring an independent appraiser to represent you. More money out the window. In our situation, we fundamentally think that one property sale skewed the results very dramatically and that Vision did not adequately appraise and subsequently allocate changes to the building vs. land values. We asked them to re-look, but they just said that they have standards to follow. Changes in values that whip 17% up one year and then get reduced 15% the next when there is another property sale make no sense. The town, whether it is the Select Board or others, should be looking at whether wild swings are abnormal occurrences or realistic changes in the market and then try and minimize the ranges of changes, unless they have many data points to collaborate the results. Any change of greater than +/- 5% in this market needs further evaluation.... Same will be true for those who saw large reductions in assessments this time around, as they will not be as happy when there are new sales and the assessments go right back up in their neighborhoods. And lets not offend people with childish suggestions that if they don't like it, move.

I'm not sure I agree. +/- 5% specifically in the economy we have been experiencing is very much expected, from say late '07 till maybe early summer this year. Same fluctuation can be found in peoples retirement funds, many with 35% or larger lossesd. I for one came in -17% last year in my 401K and right now, today, am at 22.2%...That's a huge swing.

remember something
 

When it comes to paying your taxes remeber one thing. You could take a Vacation to Hawaii blow 5K no problem probably more have a good week and all your left with are memories,..... if you have a camp that has been around for generations, and it paid for and all you do is pay 5K for taxes and some general money for up keep you have a vacation that lasts all summer long, and continues to give you memories....

I don't know about anyone else, but I would rather keep making memories rather then create them and only have them after that.......

1/2 bath vs. full
 

Well for the first time our valuation went down. Yipee! I did notice that they list a 1/2 bath as a full bath. Anyone have any idea how much that would drop valuation once it is corrected?

I am thinking that the difference would be minor. If you where talking about a Bedroom that would be one thing, and that I would believe could make a 10 - 20K difference. But a 1/2 to a full bath, I am not even sure I would argue over it.... unless you have seen a steep increase because of it.

Please be more accurate in your statements.
1) The state DID NOT hire Vision Appraisal, the town did. Different towns handle the assessing task in different ways. In all cases; however, the ultimate responsibility is with the slectmen.
2) Moultonboro hired a part time assessor, Brownie Jones, years ago and also brought in Vision. As some of you may know Brownie has done an excellent job over the years and is retiring soon. He will readily admit that he does not always agree with Vision.
3) The town is presently in the process of hiring a new assessor who is slated to be full time.
4) As a general rule, if you feel that your assessment is way off, don't hesitate to go to BTLA.

Also, remember that assessing is not a preciss science.

Your argument sounds great, for the people who own out-right. What about the person who owns a second home in Moultonborough and pays 800 or more monthly? Possibly for them every dollar matters.

Excellent comment. Many of us are struggling so every tax dollar saved does matter.

Wolfeboro hired Vision Appraisal also. The first thing they did was value all properties in town. Looking at that value times the then current tax rate or millage our taxes would have been unbelievable. I appealed and they reduced the valuation 30%, but then the town announced a new tax rate based on the town wide assessments. Based on the new tax rate ours was 1/2 of what it would have been with the initial assessment and the old tax rate- which is still outrageously high by the way.

Has Moultonborough announced a new tax rate based on the town wide reassessment?

My bad, I was under the impression that the state hired vision as they also were used in several towns including mine here in the southern part of the state.

DPG,

I don't disagree. But what I don't like hearing about are people that are in my situation where the place is all payed for and is being handed down generation to generation. Because it is payed for it is the best vacation for the dollar I can ever have.

Now the other thing is there are people in the situation I am in, and Then Mom and Dad Pass away, or give them complete control, and they tare down the camp and put up a new year around place...(4 families on my road have done this).... Then they wine about the cost. They don't use the place anymore then they did before and now have a mortgage and higher taxes.....this amounts to stupidity in my estimation......

That is typical. The towns need x amount of money to operate. It doesn't matter if your house is assessed at a million dollars and taxed at $10 a thousand or $500,000 and taxed at $20 a thousand. It is the same amount. What it does though, is after a few years, the rates creep up again because everyone thinks their rate is low, forgetting how much the valuations went up. And the people who get hurt are the ones who were undervalued and theirs go up a lot all at once to catch up.

While not about Moultonborough, here's some property tax info from Belmont, the lakes region town south of Laconia, that demonstates how the local NH property tax system works.
............................................

Belmont tax rate up 7.4% due to decline in tax base

Belmont - The New Hampshire Department of Revenue Administration this week set the 2009 property tax rate at $19.69 per $1,000 of assessed value which is $1.35, or 7.4-percent higher, than the 2008 rate of $18.34.

The jump in the rate reflects a steep drop in assessed values along with a decline in revenues from sources other than property taxes, including the loss of municipal revenue sharing from the state. The total assessed valuation fell $73.6-million, or 9.2-percent, from $798,243,137 to $724,682,218.

The total tax burden, the total amount to be raised by property taxes, actually decreased from $14.4-million to $14.0 million.

The town portion of the tax rate rose from $6.24 to $6.99, the local school tax from $8.84 to $9.02, the state education property tax from $2.04 to $2.35 and the county tax from $1.22 to $1.33.

Laconia Daily Sun, 10/26/09, Michael Kitch
................

With no short term or long term capital gains tax, no income tax, no sales tax, and no oil fields underground like in Alaska, the New Hampshire local property tax is NH's 'hi-torque tax engine.' It does the heavy lifting. Here in New Hampshire, you can lose your job only to see your home's assessed value go down, and at the same time your property tax bill can go up. How is that a fair tax? :eek:

...............

As a side note, I'd like to mention that the State of NH gets more tax revenue when some poor slob like me buys a one-dollar mcchicken sandwich, namely 9 cents, as opposed to the zero cents which NH received from Senator Judd Gregg when he won $850,000 in the October 25, 2005 Powerball Lottery.

What a wacky NH tax system! NH has a tax system where the mcchickens do the heavy lifting for the Powerballs.

I don't know about fairness, but each towns "legislative body" ( voters) approve appropriations and budgets each year and regardless of what happens to valuations and other revenue sources, the tax rate has to be adjusted to raise sufficient revenue to pay the bills.

If the Republicans had the legislative New Hampshire majority right now, down in Concord, then they would now be promoting a new state wide property tax so state gov could be adequately funded with no lay-offs, etc.

That is what the Republican's did at the local town level thoughout New Hampshire, and they call it the NEW HAMPSHIRE ADVANTAGE. It's an advantage because the little guy and the elderly home owner are stuck with the big tax bills. .....some advantage....and for who?

:offtopic: Sounds like a political advertisement to me....