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-   -   Wide Open saloon Weirs beach (https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11781)

crowsnest 03-25-2011 09:45 AM
Wide Open saloon Weirs beach
 
Does anyone know if they did anything with the burt saloon or have any plans for it. I hope they rebuild or knock it down before tourist season starts this year !

fatlazyless 03-25-2011 09:58 AM
No signs of demolition-repair-reconstruction since the day of the fire at the Wide Open Saloon. Since the fire happened, a temporary chain link fence was installed around the perimeter and the burnt out wreck is probably waiting for a friendly insurance company to show up with a big bucket of 100-dollar bills to get a reconstruction project all engaged up.

So, where is the money, where-where-where, to make something start to happen down at the Wide Open Saloon? I have absolutely no clue what-so-ever but nothing is happening with the burnt out wreck which took place on September 17, 2010.

There's another thread on the fire at the Wide Open Saloon started on the day of the fire which has a video link to the fire from WMUR.

VitaBene 03-25-2011 10:12 AM
The entire Weirs needs a do-over! where is that master plan they have been talking about?

fatlazyless 03-25-2011 10:52 AM
Here's some new construction happening at the Weirs area. Over on nearby Scenic Drive, just up the hill and beyond a trailer park about one half mile from the seasonally closed Weirs the Beef store, the www.meredithbaynh.com has been doing extensive earth moving and sitework all winter long. Looking in their website, they have a number of proposed two bedroom-three bathroom townhouses overlooking the waterfront at 629 Scenic Drive with asking price in the range of 500 to 600 thousand dollars.

The site is located on a Weirs Beach Scenic Drive hilltop site that used to be home to a well known restaurant years ago, so I have been told. It is situated between the Scenic Drive and the waterfront railroad tracks which is within the City of Laconia.

Last time I drove past about two weeks ago, they were drilling and doing sitework with some big earth moving Caterpillar machines, and none of the townhouse construction had been started. Probably, the townhouse construction will be starting up soon?

Jmo77011 03-25-2011 07:17 PM
More condos?
 
Does anyone actually buy these homes? It seems like these developements have popped up all over the place, but especially in the Weirs and Meredith areas. For the most part, they look empty...and that's when the developments are actually finished!

Channel Pirate 03-26-2011 11:23 AM
"Smoke House" pun intended
 
Just add it to the collection of local run down, eye sore Baldi properties.

sa meredith 03-26-2011 11:58 AM
Weirs
 
I made a trip up to the lake Thurs/Frid...and noticed a few things, while heading over to Crazy Gringos.
I was surprised to see the burned out building just sitting there, untouched. What an eye sore.
The bbq type shop at the end of the Weirs Strip is gone after just one season. Building is now empty. Seems like a a pretty solid location.
There is real estate sign in the window of the place next door to Gringos (Paradise Club???). Wondering if they are folding up?

Woodsy 03-26-2011 04:48 PM
SA...

The owner of the Paradise always puts it up for sale... but they will reopen in may.... same goes for Weirs the Beef. Tommy will be back from FL in a few weeks!

I dont think ANYTHING is going to happen at the Wide Open Saloon... rumor up here is they are still under investigation.... and the ins co hasnt paid out because of it.... but thats just hearsay!

Woodsy

sa meredith 03-26-2011 08:07 PM
not WTB
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy (Post 153291)
SA...

The owner of the Paradise always puts it up for sale... but they will reopen in may.... same goes for Weirs the Beef. Tommy will be back from FL in a few weeks!

I dont think ANYTHING is going to happen at the Wide Open Saloon... rumor up here is they are still under investigation.... and the ins co hasnt paid out because of it.... but thats just hearsay!

Woodsy
No, no...WTB is still there, in the old store building.
I'm talking about the place where the roof collapsed a few years back. It was a pizza place for a bit, and last year it was a bbq type place. Just empty now.

angela4design 03-26-2011 10:10 PM
News on Facebook...
 
There have been a few postings on Facebook...

Quote:
I know I havent been on here much...It's still hard. No progress yet, Although I do have a few ideas. Lots of meetings with insurance and contractors. Unforunatly I am grossly underinsured, so more than Likely I will not be able to rebuild as big as I would like. Trying to remain optimistic though !
October 11, 2010 at 2:36pm
Quote:
I am very sad to say that the Wide Open Saloon will not be open in time for the 2011 season. I Have not given up yet, but have hit many MANY bumps in my road to rebuild and recover from such a heart braking lose.
February 11 at 9:59am

Winniboater81 03-27-2011 10:09 AM
IDK I live in the weirs, and the smokehouse used to busy years ago. In the last few years nobody goes there. This past summer, the place was a ghost town...weird how it burnt down after the summer...after they tried to make it work.

corollaman 03-27-2011 10:16 PM
Hope they do something with it soon, before bike week and the tourist season too. it's such an eyesore, just like most of the weirs. The whole weirs needs a makeover.

4Fun 03-28-2011 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith (Post 153295)
No, no...WTB is still there, in the old store building.
I'm talking about the place where the roof collapsed a few years back. It was a pizza place for a bit, and last year it was a bbq type place. Just empty now.

Boy I hope they will open again. They had the best pulled pork burrito.

crowsnest 03-28-2011 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corollaman (Post 153339)
Hope they do something with it soon, before bike week and the tourist season too. it's such an eyesore, just like most of the weirs. The whole weirs needs a makeover.
Maybe knock it down and put up a hot dog stand till they figure it out !

no-engine 04-03-2011 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 153222)
Here's some new construction happening at the Weirs area. Over on nearby Scenic Drive, just up the hill and beyond a trailer park about one half mile from the seasonally closed Weirs the Beef store, the www.meredithbaynh.com has been doing extensive earth moving and sitework all winter long. Looking in their website, they have a number of proposed two bedroom-three bathroom townhouses overlooking the waterfront at 629 Scenic Drive with asking price in the range of 500 to 600 thousand dollars.

The site is located on a Weirs Beach Scenic Drive hilltop site that used to be home to a well known restaurant years ago, so I have been told. It is situated between the Scenic Drive and the waterfront railroad tracks which is within the City of Laconia.

Last time I drove past about two weeks ago, they were drilling and doing sitework with some big earth moving Caterpillar machines, and none of the townhouse construction had been started. Probably, the townhouse construction will be starting up soon?
Not only a restaurant, it was a motel! Before they started work, you could actually in the concrete that there were strip motel units!

The new units will be kind of "cliff-hangers", as I imagine, having walked around several years ago. It used to be a nice stop/rest site, when bicycling the rail tracks with a "mountain-hybrid bike", mixed with side roads.

no-engine 04-03-2011 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corollaman (Post 153339)
Hope they do something with it soon, before bike week and the tourist season too. it's such an eyesore, just like most of the weirs. The whole weirs needs a makeover.
Some recent snow made the roof in back cave in. More neglect.
Seems, as another wrote, Baldi family will figure a way!

6meter 04-06-2011 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winniboater81 (Post 153310)
IDK I live in the weirs, and the smokehouse used to busy years ago. In the last few years nobody goes there. This past summer, the place was a ghost town...weird how it burnt down after the summer...after they tried to make it work.
I have to agree here. I used to be at the Smokehouse atleast one night per weekend. Friday and Saturday very busy. But with live entertainment. Went on a August saturday night last summer, three tables occupied outside and none inside, and I was one of them. No live entertainment due to the towns regulations on sprinkler systems or something.

VitaBene 04-06-2011 05:23 PM
To be torn down soon?
 
From LaDaSun:


Quote:
LACONIA — The city's code enforcement officer will ask the City Council for permission to order the demolition what's left of the Wide Open Saloon — a Weirs Beach landmark ravaged by fire last September.

Enforcement Officer Bill Stewart said Monday the statutory procedure for ordering the building's demolition begins with an order from the council. He said the owners have 20 days to either make demolition arrangements or petition against the order to Belknap County Superior Court.

Likewise, if the order is not challenged but still disobeyed, Stewart said the city would be forced into court.

"It is very unsafe and very dangerous," Stewart said, noting that the owners have surrounded the property with a fence.

According to City Manager Eileen Cabanel, city officials are especially concerned that the building will not be torn down before annual Motorcycle Week in June.

She said Fire Chief Ken Erickson has repeatedly made his concerns about safety of the building known and she gave the code enforcement officer the authority to contact the city attorney for directions to order its demolition.

His recommendations will be considered by the council on Monday night.

Rusty 04-06-2011 05:37 PM
You can read the article in today's LDS

http://localhostr.com/file/UStFce2/saloon.JPG

fatlazyless 04-07-2011 08:54 AM
So, what happens to the empty lot after the burnt out Wide Open Saloon gets demolished and leveled? Just across the intersection there's a large empty lot that used to be home to Karl's Fine Foods which burnt down in October, 2005.

It's my guess that it remains an empty lot that's is available for sale for a long time, just like Karl's, and still responsible for an expensive semi-annual property tax bill.


Would a bank make a loan for construction of a new hotel in that location? Would a successful chain like a Dunkin Donuts, KFC, or Walgreen want to build there? Who knows....maybe the answer is yes and a Dunkin would be interested? After it gets leveled.....then what happens.....probably nothing except for a posting a 'for sale' sign and Bike Week vendor space.

Are the three different commercial business electronic, brightly colored, moving signs, all located near the former Wide Open Saloon, a positive or a negative for that commercial area down at the 'malfunction junction?'

mcdude 04-07-2011 10:26 AM
From the Laconia Citizen (4/7/11)
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcsi.dl...ef=AR&MaxW=250
Quote:
Weirs anxious to see building razed
<SCRIPT>document.title = unescape("Weirs%20anxious%20to%20see%20building%20 razed") + " - Fosters";</SCRIPT>
LACONIA — As they get ready for what hopefully will be a successful 2011 tourist season, business owners in The Weirs are buoyed by the city's decision to seek the demolition of a burned-out building at the entrance to the resort area.

At next Monday's City Council meeting, Code Enforcement Officer Bill Stewart is expected to ask for permission to order that the Wide Open Saloon, which was heavily damaged in a three-alarm fire on Sept. 17, 2010 — be razed.

The building at 38 Endicott Street North is owned by Brandi Baldi, who was unavailable for comment on Wednesday.

Built in 1886 as the Aquedoktan Hotel, the saloon first catered to visitors who came to The Weirs for reunions of Civil War veterans. With 30 rooms, the Aquedoktan was among the largest in the area.

Before becoming the Wide Open Saloon in 2010, the property had been known as the Weirs Beach Smoke House and was a popular destination for visitors, especially during Bike Week.

For several years, the Smoke House and its former, late owner Deb Tumey held a reception before the annual lighting of the Weirs Beach sign across the street on Lakeside Avenue. The lighting of the sign marks the unofficial start of the tourist season.

That lighting won't take place this year, at least not until the Wide Open Saloon is leveled and the lot it sits on is cleared, said Tom Pucci, the president of the Weirs Action Committee, which annually sponsors the sign lighting ceremony and uses the opportunity to promote The Weirs.

With the hulk of the Wide Open Saloon looming from just across the street, the WAC will postpone the ceremony, or light up the sign without fanfare, said Pucci.

"We feel it is in appropriate to kick off a tourist season with that as a backdrop," he said, adding that several people who last year visited his business, the Grandview Motel and Cottages, "asked if that building was taken down."

"I do hope that the city can move swiftly. There's a groundswell of support for the city to hold a business accountable that is at the crossroads of our tourist season. It's just something that is a hazard and an attractive nuisance."

Fred Clausen, owner of Proctor's Lakehouse Cottages on Weirs Boulevard, echoed Pucci's sentiments.

"I'm very happy with the direction the city is taking," he said. "I wish it had been done sooner."

Ward 1 City Councilor Ava Doyle, who with her husband David owns and operates Sun Valley Cottages, agreed that "everybody is concerned why it (the Wide Open Saloon) is still there. It's one of the entrances to The Weirs and with summer coming, we always try to put our best foot forward and it's certainly not our best foot at the moment."

Doyle, whose district covers most of The Weirs, said she's had a fire in her own business and "I can certainly understand what's involved in demolition and repair," adding, however, that she was "out of the loop" as to what unique challenges Baldi may be facing.

While they look forward to improvements at the Wide Open Saloon site, Pucci and Clausen are also looking forward to their respective opening days. The Grandview will open for the season next week; Proctor's on May 12 in time for the Winnipesaukee Fishing Derby.

"I think we're going to have a terrific season as long as the weather cooperates," said Pucci. Inquiries and reservations have been coming in from the United Kingdom, France, Germany and from across the U.S., he said, adding that some have been drawn by new nearby attractions, including the "Monkey Trunks" high rope and zip line at Funspot and the wilderness adventure park at Gunstock Mountain Resort, both of which are expected to be online this season.

An additional race at New Hampshire Motor Speedway will also mean more visitors to The Weirs and the Lakes Region in general, said Pucci, who also thinks a New England-wide Mustang car show scheduled for the weekend after Labor Day will prove very successful.

Clausen said that after a "miserable" 2009, when the slumping economy hit his business the hardest, 2011 was shaping up to be incrementally better than 2010.

"We're about 10 percent ahead of last year's bookings which were about 10 percent ahead of the year before. It's looking like a good season, not a great season, but it's early."

Both Clausen and Pucci said that in addition to the weather, the other factor in whether they and their colleagues in the tourist trade have profitable seasons is the price of gasoline.

"People may come here and maybe not go further north," Clausen speculated with Pucci adding that "a lot of people do like that one-tank-of-gas-away vacation."

High gas prices several years ago prompted an increase in "stay-cations" — where people stayed at or close to home — and something similar could happen in 2011, said Pucci.

"Not that we're pleased to see the gas prices the way they are, but it's just a funny reaction. It could keep people from traveling greater distances."
Old image of the Aquedoktan Hotel
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...doktan1897.jpg
"The Aquedoktan, later known as The Eden Roc, became popular gathering spot for Weirs area businessmen as well as bands that played at Irwin's Winnipesaukee Gardens, including Duke Ellington, Lionel Hampton and Count Basie. The bands stayed right there and would often close the bar on Tuesday nights and be there when it reopened on Wednesday,” recalls Lawton."

More Pics click here....
http://www.weirsbeach.com/Largejpgs/...ctanhotel.html

http://www.weirsbeach.com/media2010/misc/hotelfire.jpg

ronc4424 04-12-2011 07:29 PM
The Laconia City Council last night ordered the building demolished by May 6th. It will be interesting to see what happens.

PapaDon 04-13-2011 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronc4424 (Post 154506)
The Laconia City Council last night ordered the building demolished by May 6th. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I'll be surprised if it happens that soon...

Channel Pirate 04-20-2011 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winniboater81 (Post 153310)
IDK I live in the weirs, and the smokehouse used to busy years ago. In the last few years nobody goes there. This past summer, the place was a ghost town...weird how it burnt down after the summer...after they tried to make it work.
Weird how the property is in his wifes name since the FRM scandal ?

fatlazyless 04-23-2011 10:40 AM
Back in today's news, April 23 LaDaSun....something about the insurance claim denied by the insurance company and a lawsuit filed against the insurance company for denying the claim?

Rusty 04-23-2011 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 155551)
Back in today's news, April 23 LaDaSun....something about the insurance claim denied by the insurance company and a lawsuit filed against the insurance company for denying the claim?
"The city code enforcement officer says the city still hopes the owners of the burned-out Wide Open Saloon at the foot of Lakeside Ave. at Weirs Beach will demolish the building but acknowledged yesterday that there are insurance issues that could slow the process."

Read the rest of the article here: The Laconia Daily Sun

crowsnest 06-06-2011 11:41 AM
Still Standing :(

Woodsy 06-06-2011 12:27 PM
It will not be torn down before bike week unfortunately.... and with litigation who knows when it will come down! Its an eyesore to be sure! I wish the parties involved would have done the right thing for the community, alas that is not to be!

Woodsy

fatlazyless 06-07-2011 05:14 AM
...a winner tee shirt!
 
Would this make for a good selling tee shirt and postcard or what? Transfer the photo from McDude's post #21 with the burning Wide Open Saloon onto a tee shirt and label it "Insurance Denied - Laconia 2011".

That must be the Laconia Fire Dept's new aerial tower truck in the foreground that is shooting water onto the building?

Looking at the historical photos, the hotel used to be a very well designed and gracious looking building........but not anymore!

Meredith lady 06-07-2011 10:29 AM
an eyesore for sure...
 
As an operator of a business in the Weirs, i personally think the owners of the Wide Open Saloon would be embarassed to have that building stand there for the summer 2011 season. Where is their loyalty to the rest of the Weirs community? The Weirs needs a face lift, we all agree on that. But being allowed to leave that building up is ridiculous. Just my opinion...

Wreckn1 06-09-2011 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meredith lady (Post 159360)
As an operator of a business in the Weirs, i personally think the owners of the Wide Open Saloon would be embarassed to have that building stand there for the summer 2011 season. Where is their loyalty to the rest of the Weirs community? The Weirs needs a face lift, we all agree on that. But being allowed to leave that building up is ridiculous. Just my opinion...
I dont think they are "being allowed" to leave the building up. I think its more of a case where they didnt get the imsurance money and the whole thing with FRM, they were supposed to have it down by the 14th but there will be NO WAY that can happen with all the stuff that needs to be done (ie asbestos inspections, asbestos and hazmat abatement so on and so forth) believe me i want it down just as bad as everyone else and they have had PLENTY of time to do it but it doesnt look like they will. Sadly it looks like the city tax payers will be the ones to pay for it until the property has been sold

fatlazyless 06-09-2011 08:26 PM
With that centrally located Wide Open Saloon right in the center of Bike Week, why don't they go get some tee shirts made up and sell them through an opening in their temporary chain link fence or something like that. At least they could start to get a little cash flow rolling in from their burnt-out business location which never hurts. Probably, it would be a good seller with fire fighters and insurance people!

A good rendition of the Wide Open Saloon fire photo (post #21) above labelled INSURANCE DENIED - LACONIA 2011 would probably be a good selling tee shirt. You know there's a quality tee shirt maker just up in North Woodstock, NH on Route 3 www.rushordertees.com.

Why not.....what the heck......between losing with FRM in Meredith and the fire last September in Laconia with the insurance denied.....the luck has got to change for the better.....and these fire-photo-Laconia Tee Shirts could become a very hot item!

LongBay 06-09-2011 09:06 PM
The slow decay of the Weirs
 
Fatlazyless, I wouldn't count on any corporate capital coming to the Weirs. Wallgreens, CVS, Dunkin Donuts and Marriott all went to the other end of town. I have seen the slow decay of the Weirs over the past thirty years. Maybe those WOW trail fundraisers can pitch in and donate some of their money to re-build the Weirs rather than tear down trees, fill in wetlands and lay down pavement and chain link fences for a trail going to nowhere.

Channel Pirate 07-13-2011 10:32 PM
Breaking update !
 
Still there ! Memorial Day, Bike Week, 4th July, and now NASCAR weekend.
Don't want to add Labor Day and the September Nascar race to this list ?

I just wanted to post somthing on this thread so it would apear on the front page of the board again.

fatlazyless 07-14-2011 11:01 AM
So, where is the friendly insurance company happy to show up with a great big bucket loaded full of hundred dollar bills that will power up a construction crew, all through this winter, to rebuild the fire damaged Wide Open Saloon building?


Here's hoping that Brandi & friends are able to convince a judge somewhere in a NH courtroom, that her insurance claim is strictly legit, and Lloyd's of London will do what they do best, pay out the insurance money. Best wishes for a successfull lawsuit!


Weirs Beach - Wide Open Saloon location: Possible outcomes ????

Possibility #1) The City of Laconia pays to have the fire damaged lot levelled, and the lot remains an undeveloped empty lot, similar to Karl's Fine Food, for the next five years or longer !


Possibility #2) Insurance money is put to work reconstructing the Wide Open Saloon, and it is back in business for next MC-Week with 4 O'Clock, Happy Hour, two-dollar Sam Adams beers!


Possibility #3) The City of Laconia gets court approval to demolish the fire damaged building and orders it to be leveled, despite the insurance co prevailing in court and having its denied claim upheld so there is no insurance money paid out.


Possibility #4) Cannot think of something intelligent to say here but without a doubt something could happen there that was unpredictable......at least to the casual observer? Truth can be stranger than fiction!

BroadHopper 07-14-2011 11:14 AM
SouthDown Farm
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBay (Post 159634)
Fatlazyless, I wouldn't count on any corporate capital coming to the Weirs. Wallgreens, CVS, Dunkin Donuts and Marriott all went to the other end of town. I have seen the slow decay of the Weirs over the past thirty years. Maybe those WOW trail fundraisers can pitch in and donate some of their money to re-build the Weirs rather than tear down trees, fill in wetlands and lay down pavement and chain link fences for a trail going to nowhere.
Guess the folks at 'Yuppieville' have the last say on the WOW Trail. NOT ON MY BACKYARD!

fatlazyless 07-14-2011 11:49 AM
What the boardwalk area at Weirs Beach has is an elevated lakefront outlook public area that is probably the #1 best spot like that on the entire lake. The boardwalk is beautifull and is elevated about 25' above the water level and has a real impressive view of the water and surrounds, plus it is just a short walk to the town docks, town beach, arcades, Mount Washington, and food venues.

Running a WOW Trail route along side the boardwalk would put Weirs Beach right in the middle of a nine mile waterfront bicycle trail that could attract bicycle visiters whenever there's no snow on the trail, like from March to December or something. That would be very good for Weirs Beach as a tourist type location! That would create a waterfront, 9-mile long, flat level bicycle pedal path on what is now a state owned railroad track embankment, that gets just a little bit of summertime tourist railroad use.

Stimilus funding played a big part in building the first mile #1 from Lakeport to Lake Opeechee, so it's pretty safe to assume that the strong local WOW Trail support plus Obama's second term in office will all roll along together to get the WOW Trail built out from Meredith to Weirs Beach to Laconia to Belmont and beyond.

AC2717 07-14-2011 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless (Post 163065)
What the boardwalk area at Weirs Beach has is an elevated lakefront outlook public area that is probably the #1 best spot like that on the entire lake. The boardwalk is beautifull and is elevated about 25' above the water level and has a real impressive view of the water and surrounds, plus it is just a short walk to the town docks, town beach, arcades, Mount Washington, and food venues.

Running a WOW Trail route along side the boardwalk would put Weirs Beach right in the middle of a nine mile waterfront bicycle trail that could attract bicycle visiters whenever there's no snow on the trail, like from March to December or something. That would be very good for Weirs Beach as a tourist type location! That would create a waterfront, 9-mile long, flat level bicycle pedal path on what is now a state owned railroad track embankment, that gets just a little bit of summertime tourist railroad use.

Stimilus funding played a big part in building the first mile #1 from Lakeport to Lake Opeechee, so it's pretty safe to assume that the strong local WOW Trail support plus Obama's second term in office will all roll along together to get the WOW Trail built out from Meredith to Weirs Beach to Laconia to Belmont and beyond.
yeah I am sure all the people that are lake front that have the train embankment through their property want people and the added foot traffic to their land. (trian aside of course) Then all those people stopping to take breaks on their land, the trash that might be left there and the noise during the night of kids and people walking talking and biking up and down their property, not to mention that snow mobilers (not that I am against snow mobiles) would probably use it like the tracks now

Just think of that whole beautiful semi private property that people paid from between the Weirs and Meredith having to put up with that stuff, yeah that is fair to them,
what a joke

oh yeah with the fence requirement now these people with right away access on the water, would now have to hop over a fence on each side of the trail, yeah talk about beautification, my foot!

fatlazyless 07-14-2011 07:11 PM
www.wowtrail.com .....what's not to like!....probably the best thing to happen to the Weirs since the sandy beach was created in the 1960's! Once the WOW Trail is built, everyone will say: Buoy, this is one fantastic WOW Trail.........like wow!

Have you taken the WOW Trail voter-poll? How will you be using the WOW Trail?


Just picture yourself pedaling the WOW Trail, back and forth for 15-miles on a hot summer's day, and then stopping for a two dollar, Happy Hour - Sam Adams at the newly rebuilt Wide Open Saloon which is directly along the trail there. Like wow!

onthebay 07-15-2011 11:22 AM
WOW Trail
 
Take down the stupid requirement from the state for a 5 foot chain link fence along the trail and maybe I would not oppose it.


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