New to the lake- need a gps/chartplotter

[hancoveguy]

Hello all,
I am shopping for a GPS or Chartplotter for the lake. I have a 24' boat in the greens basin area and would like to see it stay in one piece. Took the boater safety course and can navigate during the day w/out too much problem. I would like to get some sort of gps or depth finder or chartplotter thing that will help me simplify both day and night navigation... the whole follow your own previous routes etc.

Can anyone recommend a model or package that will take Bizer's charts that isn't too expensive? An someone who can install it?

thanks

[Slickcraft]

Suggest you start with a search of this forum for "gps chartplotter", you will find out a lot right away.

I have a standard horizons cp180i with the Bizer C-Map chip. The full Bizer map on the chip is great. The 180i chart plotter, while ok, is no way as user friendly as my wife's garmin nuvi gps.

[Lakepilot]

I agree with Slickcraft. I have a Standard Horizons with the lake chart, that works great, but is not as user friendly as any of our Garmins. It has a big screen and is visible under all conditions.

[NHDOLFAN]

I would go with a Garmin as you can get Lake Winni download. I bought one a few years ago for around $450.00. You could also call Marine Patrol and ask them what model they use.

[Mee-n-Mac]

I would go with a Garmin as you can get Lake Winni download. I bought one a few years ago for around $450.00. You could also call Marine Patrol and ask them what model they use.

I thought that while Bizer's chart would run on a Garmin it had "limitations" vs what you'd get on a chart-plotter that runs a C-Map chip naturally. I'm not sure what these "limitations" are but it's mentioned on Bizers GPS page. Perhaps they are not important, perhaps version W2 eliminated them ? Hopefully Bizer can chime and let us know.

http://bizer.com/

[Bear Island South]

I agree, go with a Garmin, I use a GPS MAP 276C, I haven't experienced any problems.
Go to Bizers website, if you purchase an electronic chart the download is easy, he will email you a file with instructions, it takes about 5-10 minutes.

[Rinkerguy]

How much for the Lake Winnipesaukee download for the Garmin?

[Sman]

maps work

from their website:
Bizer's most common product is its waterproof, folded chart of Lake Winnipesaukee. It's 22"x34" folded up to 6"x11". It costs $ 9.95 plus $3.50 for shipping (total: $13.45)

there, just saved you $436.55

good luck have fun its a great lake

[Seeker]

I have an older Garmin 172C with Bizers card and it works great. It shouldn't be hard to find something like it used for real cheap $$$. Install is super easy (unless you connect it to your radio and or depthfinder) just 2 wires. The antenna is built in and the colors are readable in all sunlight conditions. I would talk to some boat owners at marinas, etc and get their input. Just remember, the bigger the screen the better you'll like it.

[camp guy]

I know this thread is all about what hardware people find most user friendly, and I am sure there will be plenty of very helpful answers - however, I can't sit still and not put in my two cents worth about boating in general.

Even with the most sophisticated hardware, there is no substitute for personal knowledge of where you are boating. If you are going to an area new to you, use your compass and chart, and your Garmin, and your eyeballs, and the eyeballs of anyone with you in the boat. Nothing beats actually seeing what you are doing.

My last caveat, and one I have said before, and so have many others, when in doubt, go SLOWLY, even more slowly than you think necessary. If you have a problem, have it at the slowest speed possible.

I hope you have a great season of boating, and enjoy the Lake - it is a great place to be.

[Bear Island South]

maps work

from their website:
Bizer's most common product is its waterproof, folded chart of Lake Winnipesaukee. It's 22"x34" folded up to 6"x11". It costs $ 9.95 plus $3.50 for shipping (total: $13.45)

there, just saved you $436.55

good luck have fun its a great lake

yup, even with your expensive GPS always have the chart handy

[Acres per Second]

yup, even with your expensive GPS always have the chart handy
I saved $436.55 by always following the weather AND by consulting both popular Lake Winnipesaukee charts.

"...Nothing beats actually seeing what you are doing...go SLOWLY, even more slowly than you think necessary. If you have a problem, have it at the slowest speed possible..."
1) Meaning, when you "can't see kayaks", you probably can't see boulders either? :rolleye2:

2) According to the Gummint, "following the plotter" looks like a dicier past-time under today's economic constraints—with an improved and modern European GPS system in the works:
:confused:

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165126/gps_system_could_begin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

[jonfinn]

I haven't yet invested in gps for my boat. This will be my 4th season boating on Winnipesaukee (or even owning a boat for that matter). So I'm talking from an "intermediate/novice" POV.

The things that helped me the most when learning the lake are:

-learning what the markers REALLY mean in the lake. It's not just "pretend the black markers are replacing green." It's not quite that simple.

-Learning to navigate via lake charts (I like the Bizer ones).

-Don't proceed thru a heavily marked area (like the "graveyard", or that little cove near Camp Winaukee) unless your pretty certain you know which way to go. Further, don't assume the person in front of you knows the right way. I've dinged a coupla propellers and skegs learning that lesson! Yikes!

Anyway, good luck and have fun!

GPS/Plotters are great. I'm very much a fan of "heads-up" boating too!

[VtSteve]

I saved $436.55 by always following the weather AND by consulting both popular Lake Winnipesaukee charts.


1) Meaning, when you "can't see kayaks", you probably can't see boulders either? :rolleye2:

2) According to the Gummint, "following the plotter" looks like a dicier past-time under today's economic constraints—with an improved and modern European GPS system in the works:
:confused:

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165126/gps_system_could_begin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Unfortunately APS, when you view things ideological all the time, you find yourself only reading what you want to.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/165305/air_force_responds_to_gps_outage_concerns.html

Posting this would have pretty much defeated the original, misinformed article you posted first. Just as a five minute conversation with the MP would pretty much relegate a lot of what you and FLL attempt to post as fact, to something more fitting in the circular file.

[Acres per Second]

"...I'm very much a fan of "heads-up" boating too...!"Dittoes—obvious from my post. :)

"...Even with the most sophisticated hardware, there is no substitute for personal knowledge...If you have a problem, have it at the slowest speed possible..."
Really good advice. :cool: A good ¼-square-mile+ area near Carry Beach is great sightseeing for scary huge boulders just under the surface. :eek:

(Called "glacial erratics").

"...Unfortunately APS...blah...blah...blah...only reading what you want to..."
The article was posted at BoaterEd.com: I'm certain they didn't intend to deceive its readers. Both GAO and USAF say the same thing—it's a spitting match between two government agencies!

:offtopic:

The OP wants to spend the money on GPS: All I'm saying is to eyeball the weather and to eyeball any interruptions—whether they are granite or fiberglass.

GPS can't be relied upon to tell the whole story! :laugh:

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http://www.felixhu.com/cleaverfever/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/IMGP1246_400.jpg

[VtSteve]

I think the money is well spent on the GPS. I also think the OP should follow the good old-fashioned paper charts to get a good map read. In addition, touring the lake with chart in hand (slowly) is a great way to look at areas first hand that the chart seems to have marked off as problem areas. Nothing like training the mind to have the real picture.

The GPS is an awesome way to mark waypoints this way. You can navigate to areas that you've marked off using the methodology above. It all works together to make for a happier boating life IMO.

As for the GPS satellites themselves? It's been an ongoing situation for some time now. If you read the second article after the first, it's far less alarming, and far more informative.

[Orion]

Pilots are trained to develop a scan which includes instruments, charts, and out the window. Boaters should follow same. More information is NEVER a bad thing. A GPS is helpful when the old Mark-8 eyeball is playing tricks, as is a depth-sounder to a lesser extent. I am very familiar with the lake (boating here for almost 50 years) yet occasionally things are not what or where they seem between what you see and what's on the chart and the GPS is a sweet thing to have to give that extra measure of comfort while navigating. This is especially true at night, more so with no moon, and even critical in the Fall when the warm water meets the cold morning air. In the latter case, I wouldn't venture some mornings (from the Island) without a GPS as you can't see 10' past the bow.

I've been investigating the newer Lowrance HDS series chartplotters and the maps look beautiful. When you buy the Lake Insight equipped versions, they come pre-loaded with the Navionics detailed lake maps of the whole USA and I believe it includes the fishing Hot Spot data ($200 value). I should have it by next week to provide a comparison to the Bizer maps and will report.

[pardsie]

I've been communicating with Orion regarding the Lowrance HDS5 and it does look very tempting. Can anyone shed any light on units they are using for fishfinder gps combos other than those using the Bizer feature. BTW standard horizon now makes the CPF180I which is a combo unit as opposed to the older CP180I which required a black box fishfinder FF250 I believe. So now they have combined the 2. I have been told the Standard Horizons are not the easiest to operate however.

[BroadHopper]

Works for me for 50 years.
Never did like the 'naggin' mother-in-law' effect of the new GPS.

I remember the NASWA boat ran into the Witches a few years back because the skipper relied on his GPS!

Any service man will tell you that the DOD 'scrambles' the GPS signal so that it is only accurate to 300 feet. To prevent the accuracy from falling 'into the hands of the enemy'.

[Woodsy]

Broadhopper...

The US DoD no longer scrambles the GPS signal.... they havent for years! They do reserve the right to shut down civilian use of GPS should a crisis arise.

The newer GPS units are pretty darn accurate depending on the number of sattelites they recieve... They are not a replacement for the good ol'e Mark I eyeball!

Woodsy

[Phantom]

If I'm not mistaken -- the current accuracy is "within 10 meters" i.e 33 ft.

From my personal experiance "testing" it with waypoints I have laid, I'd say it's even better than that!

And while on the topic -- instead of re-opening the "Garmin" thread .... has anyone used the Bizer chip in a Nuvi 255W. I am also curious of how it operates in the Nuvi 550 (if anyone has actually used it).

[jmen24]

The accuracy can range quite a bit depending on the number of sats you are locked on and how tightly you are locked. But the high end commercial units that are used for surveying and construction services are accurate to a fraction of an inch. Unfortunately it will be some time before that accuracy comes to a level that it can be used in handheld or dash mounted units. My Rhino 530 is in the range of 10-30 feet depending on the factors above and how close you zoom in on your position on the screen, the closer you zoom the more accurate your location.

[Woodsy]

If I'm not mistaken -- the current accuracy is "within 10 meters" i.e 33 ft.

From my personal experiance "testing" it with waypoints I have laid, I'd say it's even better than that!

And while on the topic -- instead of re-opening the "Garmin" thread .... has anyone used the Bizer chip in a Nuvi 255W. I am also curious of how it operates in the Nuvi 550 (if anyone has actually used it).

Phantom...

I think if you do a search there was a thread on this a short while ago... the Garmin Nuvi unit has to have the topography map for the Bizer Winni map/chip to work. The only Nuvi unit I think it works in is the 500... I have been looking to get one myself.

Woodsy

[fatlazyless]

Got to wonder....never heard this discussed before.... was Erika Blizzard's 32' Formula on gps-assist navigat'n at the time?

Confucius say: Steering gps rainy foggy night = Excedrin headache #061608!

www.excedrin.com

Confucius also say: you buy gps, then you want buy seatbelts, too!

www.seatbeltsplus.com

[Mee-n-Mac]

Phantom...

I think if you do a search there was a thread on this a short while ago... the Garmin Nuvi unit has to have the topography map for the Bizer Winni map/chip to work. The only Nuvi unit I think it works in is the 500... I have been looking to get one myself.

Woodsy

Bizer reports that users report that his Winni chart for Garmins works on the NuVi (200W, 250W, 260W, 350, & 750) models. I suspect it'll work for the 255 as well. I'm a bit curious myself as we got a Nuvi 250 or 255 (it was the cheapest version that did text-to-speech) a year or so ago. They problem I have with using these automotive GPS units for the lake is that all I think they can do is display the chart. I doubt these Nuvi's can store waypoints or routes. Heck I'm not sure if they'd even leave visible breadcrumbs on the display. Perhaps someone who has one can clue us in .....

[Orion]

LOL...do all those poo-pooing anti-GPS'ers really believe that people are down in the cockpit with their eyes glued to a GPS screen screaming across the lake blindly? :laugh: Do any of these anti-GPS'ers even have or ever used a GPS? A whole lot of misinformation is being put out and I can't figure out why.:confused:

[Acres per Second]

"...LOL...do all those poo-pooing anti-GPS'ers really believe that people are down in the cockpit with their eyes glued to a GPS screen screaming across the lake blindly...?"
Outlook Express difficulties had me deleting older messages this morning. What the source originally was of this quote that follows—I don't know, but here it is:

"I wondered if anyone had any ideas about achieving better night vision in conjunction with a GPS. The few times I went out at night and tried to follow the GPS...I found myself almost completely blinded by the screen. While I could read the GPS just fine, I couldn't see a thing in the water! In fact, it was so bad that I finally just turned the thing off and did my best following the lit buoys and shore lights."
Others I located are GPS-related boating collisions involving fatalities— those I can post at a later time.

Maybe FLL's related question will be answered soon-enough, too. Maybe you've also noticed that the midnight sky is lightening very early lately, with another two weeks before it peaks at the 1-year anniversary of that crash.

So, even though I went to the trouble to find links not used for now, here's this boater's most-sensible approach to GPS use:
"...never ever follow your GPS at night at a speed greater than you can see what lies ahead. A GPS is not a radar, and probably causes as many accidents as it helps people not get lost. It is a tool only to help you maintain a course..."

ETA:

It's happened to one of us! (http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18884&postcount=8)

My point: there's no substitute for the eyeball.



(Athough I guess GPS does have its place.)

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http://www.gpsmagazine.com/assets/gps_photo_contest3.jpg

:laugh:

[Orion]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">"I wondered if anyone had any ideas about achieving better night vision in conjunction with a GPS. The few times I went out at night and tried to follow the GPS...I found myself almost completely blinded by the screen. While I could read the GPS just fine, I couldn't see a thing in the water! In fact, it was so bad that I finally just turned the thing off and did my best following the lit buoys and shore lights." </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Most good GPS units have a night mode and the ability to reduce the brightness sufficient to not impact night vision. I often laugh driving down the road at night with some of the idiots out there with a GPS on their dash lit up full brightness in daytime mode. Cleary they haven't got a clue about night vision.

[Overlake97]

Phantom...

I think if you do a search there was a thread on this a short while ago... the Garmin Nuvi unit has to have the topography map for the Bizer Winni map/chip to work. The only Nuvi unit I think it works in is the 500... I have been looking to get one myself.

Woodsy

Woodsy: My Nuvi 200W cost less than $200 when I bought it a year or so ago, and it works great with the new Bizer map. Search for my earlier posts about how to download it (see the Garmin and Bizer thread)

[Mee-n-Mac]

Woodsy: My Nuvi 200W cost less than $200 when I bought it a year or so ago, and it works great with the new Bizer map. Search for my earlier posts about how to download it (see the Garmin and Bizer thread)


Can you confirm (or deny) my earlier guesses concerned routes, waypoints and breadcrumbs ? All I'd expect from an auto GPS is to electronically display the chart. Also I know my Nuvi 260 has a really good night mode, how does that work with the Bizer chart ? Thanks !