Busy day on the BIG Lake Saturday the 29th

[Outlaw]

It's going to be a very busy day on the BIG lake tomorrow. The are many activities going on;

Donzi Poker Run - starts and ends at the NASWA but the poker run is all around Winni. Usually starts early morning around 10:00 till 3 or 4 PM.
Baja Poker Run - not sure where it starts and ends but the poker run will be all around Winni (usually Meredith, Ctr. Harbor, Wolfeboro and Alton Bay). Usually starts early morning around 10:00 till 3 or 4 PM.
Sea Ray Rendezvous- starts at Irwin Marine with a Sea Ray Parade out Paugus Bay to Beaver Island. Usually starts early morning around 9:00.
Antique Wooden Boat Show at the Meredith town docks, all day.to name a few. Be careful out there and be extra cautious and courteous. With so many people on the lake, there will no doubt be frustrating moments, but take a deep breath....pause....and just let it go - it's so not worth the energy to get bothered by some of the little foolish things people may do. Give each other a little extra room when you can.

Be safe !

[Pepper]

Outlaw - can you shed some light on where these events will be taking place (other than the antique boat show, which you indicate is in Wolfeboro)? It might be extremely helpful to folks planning various outings tomorrow, so they'll know where to expect the most traffic. :)

[gtxrider]

I am glad I'm not there with all those boats!:rolleye2: I will be working this weekend what could be better?:(

I hope everyone enjoys their time on the water and be safe!

[SAMIAM]

Also,this morning,I saw a bunch of bass boats putting in early so there must be a major bass tournament as well.When you consider the warm weather,this may break all records for the number of boats out there.Drive carefully!

[Resident 2B]

Today was very busy on the lake and I saw more "boat chop" than usual around the Weirs. The kids loved it and it is still not as bad as Boston Harbor. It was great seeing so many folks having a fun time on the water.

We did the channel about 3:00 PM and I was very impressed with the FGBL boats going south in the channel when we turned around and headed back into the Weirs area. All beautiful boats in great condition.

Soon, I am moving up from my 23 foot bow rider. If only the gas prices would come down and come down soon!!

R2B

[Winni]

Okay, so I know I should let it go, but I was about to climb into the water for a little swim after the storm this afternoon and had to stop. Our neighborhood loon, big white breast and huge black head, was just about 25' from my dock. I couldn't bear to disturb him. So I sat and watched a while.

Then, screaming around Little Mark, clearly not more than 25' from the marker (so much for the 150' rule) there came one of those monster cigarette boats at a ridiculous rate of speed. He whooshed by the loon and, of course, never saw it. So, I can't help but wonder, "Why bother putting such a boat on this lake?" When they miss such wonderful sites, the things that make Winnipesaukee, well, Winnipesaukee, why not just go to the ocean and have your speed thrills? Why disturb, not appreciate, not see, and even endanger the precious wildlife on this wonderful lake?:(

I will never understand...and I can't just "let it go".

[NightWing]

What does the 150' rule have to do with a marker?

[Kevin C]

What does the 150' rule have to do with a marker?


The rule is: If you are closer tha 150 ft to a marker then you must be at headway speed only (no wake).

[upthesaukee]

Here's the RSA on basic navigation.

TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY

CHAPTER 270-D
BOATING AND WATER SAFETY ON NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC WATERS

Section 270-D:2

270-D:2 General Rules for Vessels Operating on Water. –
I. Vessels shall be operated at headway speed only, while passing under all bridges.
II. (a) It shall be the duty of each vessel to keep to the right when vessels are approaching each other head on.
(b) When the courses of vessels are so far to the starboard of each other as not to be considered as approaching head on, they shall keep to the left.
III. When vessels are crossing courses or approaching each other in an oblique direction which may involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on its starboard side shall keep out of the way of the other, allowing the latter vessel to keep its course and speed.
IV. When vessels are running in the same direction and the vessel which is astern desires to pass the other, it shall do so only when sufficient distance between the vessels is available to avoid danger of collision, and at such a speed that its wake will not endanger the boat being passed or its occupants. No person operating a vessel shall abruptly change its course without first determining that it can safely be done without crossing immediately ahead of another vessel.
V. If, when vessels are approaching each other, either vessel fails to understand the course or intention of the other from any cause, such vessel or vessels shall immediately slow to a speed barely sufficient for steerage until the vessels have safely passed each other. If it appears the danger of collision is imminent both vessels shall stop or reverse and not proceed until such danger has been averted.
VI. (a) To provide full visibility and control and to prevent their wake from being thrown into or causing excessive rocking to other boats, barges, water skiers, aquaplanes or other boats, rafts or floats, all vessels shall maintain headway speed when within 150 feet from:
(1) Rafts, floats, swimmers.
(2) Permitted swimming areas.
(3) Shore.
(4) Docks.
(5) Mooring fields.
(6) Other vessels.
(b) These requirements shall not apply when:
(1) Starting skiers from shore, docks or floats, as long as neither the boat nor the skier is endangering the life or safety of any person.
(2) A vessel is in the federal deepwater shipping channel of the Piscataqua River between navigation buoys R2, Wood Island at the mouth of the river and R12, opposite the Sprague Terminal.
(c) The operator of a towing boat shall be responsible for compliance with this paragraph.
(d) The requirements of RSA 270-D:2, VI(a)(3) shall not apply to a vessel in the waters of the Androscoggin River from the Errol Dam to Umbagog Lake or in the waters of the Magalloway River within the state of New Hampshire.
VI-a. [Repealed.]
VII. When a vessel is given the right-of-way, such vessel shall hold its course and maintain such speed as the circumstances prudently permit.
VIII. When a vessel is required to keep out of the way of another, it shall, if necessary, slacken its speed, stop, or reverse, and avoid crossing ahead of any other vessel.
IX. Canoes, rowboats and sailboats shall be given the right-of-way. This requirement shall not be construed to allow deliberate impediment of motorboats by canoes, rowboats or sailboats.
Source. 1990, 171:1. 1994, 78:1. 1995, 191:2, eff. June 1, 1997; 191:3, eff. Dec. 31, 1998. 2002, 272:13, eff. May 18, 2002.

[Resident 2B]

The rule is: If you are closer tha 150 ft to a marker then you must be at headway speed only (no wake).

That is not the rule! You do not have to go to head way speed to pass within 150' of a marker.

That said, I am very concerned about the loons on our lake, so I can identify with those that do not like the mix of GFBL with the loon population.

I like the markers as well, because they keep me off the rocks. They are there to help with navigation. However, you do not have to slow down as you pass them unless they are orange and white and marked with "HEAD WAY SPEED ONLY"

R2B

[Waterbaby]

Outlaw, wish I'd read your post BEFORE heading to the lake, lol! Saw the Sea Ray procession (no other word for it!) heading out of Irwin - what a sight!!!!! Lots of beauties sedately heading out single file, very stately! What looked like a "bajillion" ;) Bajas clustered around the Naswa docks, all trying to get in line to exit through the Channel. Gorgeous lake boats at the Meredith docks; unfortunately those of us in boats were unable to see them up close as all docks were closed. A wonderful sight just the same! There was a family "driving" around on the water in one of those amphibious carboats -- remember those? [Not me, of course ;)] My (just turned 11) son thought that was one of the coolest things he'd ever seen, looked at me like I was nuts when I explained you could literally drive your car into the water and it would turn into a boat -- that is, until he saw the license plate on the back, um, stern end of it........ What a day!

[Airwaves]

Nightwing wrote:
What does the 150' rule have to do with a marker?
If the aide to navigation is within 120' of shore (and you were 25' away from it) then the 150' rule would apply because your boat would be within 150' of shore.

There is no rule saying you have to do headway speed near an aide to navigation unless so stated (no wake signs)

I don't have a chart in front of me so I don't know how close the AToN is to Little Mark Island.

[NightWing]

If the aide to navigation is within 120' of shore (and you were 25' away from it) then the 150' rule would apply because your boat would be within 150' of shore.


True, but an entirely different issue. The statement was about a nav aid alone, which does not require no wake speed. The marker's proximity to the shoreline does not promote it to a N/W item such as the shore or another boat or a dock.


There is no rule saying you have to do headway speed near an aide to navigation unless so stated (no wake signs)

Again, the N/W sign itself is not in the class of a N/W item. It is the area that the sign is denoting that actually creates the N/W zone. The sign simply makes the boater aware of it.

[Winni]

Here's the point you are all missing...
I mentioned the marker because what people don't realize is that people actually live on that island, Little Mark. They and the people on the point behind them dock their boats and swim there. I don't care if you are 151 ft. from a solid object (hence the problem with the rule...who can really tell?), right there it is just unbelievably rude to rip around that marker into the cove area.

People very, very often use Young's Cove as a start up and drop off area for skiers, etc. Everyone in there has boats at dock. It is beyond me how these people with fast boats and/OR heavy wakes, as well as the PWCs, do not respect the rights of others and the rights of the wildlife.

And, my point was this person, as so many every day do so here, isn't here to enjoy the lake. They aren't here to see the loons, admire the natural surroundings, or see the interesting architecture around the lake. They are here simply to get a speed rush and flash their incomes. If all the cash they put into burning "rubber" on this lake went into paying off the national debt, we probably wouldn't have to pay taxes.

Page 40 of the 2005-2006 NH Boater's Guide states, "Unsafe Passage is not maintaining a proper speed or distance while operating a vessel..." Then it, unfortunately, goes on to list what's illegal. These should not be paired together, I believe, because the opening statement of that paragraph, which I quoted, should be enforced, not just the things on the list of illegal items. By pairing them, the implication is that only those listed activities are unsafe passage, whereas, acting like a jerk in a populated area or near wildlife should be, in my opinion considered unsafe passage.

Also, page 8 of the same manual notes that every operator should follow this basic rule of navigation, "Practice good seamanship." No way does this type of behavior qualify as "good seamanship". It happens over and over at the top of Alton Bay, and as I've said before it does no good to just have MPs called when you see it happening....don't even get me started again...and it is useless to have them sitting there because the jerks behave if they see them.

I'm still convinced speed traps are one of the best answers. Have someone in an unmarked boat or on land clock them and call ahead to another boat to actually do the take-down. The lake is becoming more like traveling south on Rt. 93 at rush hour. There are no other reasonable ways to catch the people drinking, disobeying the 150 ft. rule, or just being idiots on the water. I'll never stop fighting to get a speed rule passed on this lake because I know I can't get one passed to make people polite!

SLOW DOWN and enjoy the view! Try a little courtesy to others! Protect the wildlife and the investments and rights of others! That's the point, not whether something is the letter of the law.

[DoTheMath]

I agree, the loons are precious and a most amazing sight! My 16mo. old however just thinks they are ducks and he points and quacks at them, pretty funny. Anyway - the "GFBL" boats as a good number of you so like to point out as the "bad boys of the lake" are not the issue here, it is a courtesy / boater education concern. I have NEVER in all the years I have been on this lake (since I was 10 mo. old) seen so many boaters just flat-out IGNORE the 150' rule, it is just rediculous!! And so far this summer - not ONE of them has been a performance boater. I have been cut off by wave runners, overtaken by bowriders at 50', had three jokers in a ski boat with a tube behind them - just north of Eagle Isl. of all places - circle right in front of me trying to dump their towee. I just don't get - this is the simplest of rules, and the most basic of courtesies and yet people just can't figure it out!? What will it take to just get people to follow this simple task...

[Woodsy]

Winni...

Your a little off base here. The lake is for the enjoyment of all people. That means that you have to ACCEPT that other people view the lake and how they recreate differently from you. If they are obeying the law then you have no complaint.

Waterfront property owners do not OWN the water. While they have littoral rights for docks etc the water belongs to everyone.

The biggest problem with the loon population on this lake is not boats or even boat wakes! Its lack of habitat! Lake Winnipesaukee is a highly developed(some may say overdeveloped) lake. There is almost no natural habitat left. If you feel so strongly about the loons perhaps you could deed your property to the Loon Preservation Society?

I am not going to get into a speed limit debate with you. Although the effort from Winnfabs continues, this subject has been beaten to death on this forum. You have right to your beliefs, and I am just going to respectfully disagree.

Woodsy

[Seaplane Pilot]

Anyway - the "GFBL" boats as a good number of you so like to point out as the "bad boys of the lake" are not the issue here, it is a courtesy / boater education concern. I have NEVER in all the years I have been on this lake (since I was 10 mo. old) seen so many boaters just flat-out IGNORE the 150' rule, it is just rediculous!! And so far this summer - not ONE of them has been a performance boater. I have been cut off by wave runners, overtaken by bowriders at 50', had three jokers in a ski boat with a tube behind them - just north of Eagle Isl. of all places - circle right in front of me trying to dump their towee. I just don't get - this is the simplest of rules, and the most basic of courtesies and yet people just can't figure it out!? What will it take to just get people to follow this simple task...

The lake on Saturday reminded me of the scene in Caddy Shack where Rodney was on his huge cruiser named "Seafood" and said "Move over Swanson, I'm drivin'..." What a circus it was out there. As Do The Math stated, there is no simpler rule than the 150' rule, yet the vast majority of boaters either ignore it or just do not know about it. HELLO...SWIM RAFT = possible swimmers in the water. The written rule is to stay 150' from a swimraft unless going at headway speed. I almost got decapitated Saturday on more than one occasion while swimming near my raft. I think I'm going to film Caddy Shack III or find some other way to film and make money on this - maybe I can sell it to other states so they can use it in their boating education classes to show examples of how not to drive a boat. Ka-ching!

[Island-Ho]

I knew something must be up when the background noise level went up about 40dB and I couldn't even carry on a conversation on my dock at normal levels for a good part of the day. Up until Saturday the number of GFBLs has been almost invisible, but the constant din of those boats on Saturday was intolerable. Hopefully they have used up their allotment of fuel for the summer. :emb: Maybe they could invest some of their August fuel money in an effective muffler, at which point they would be more welcome on this lake. I don't know what the big deal about a poker run is, but if they are associated with some organization or charity, I would like to know who that might be so I can voice my displeasure with them directly. So far this summer gas prices seem to be effecting the number of GFBLs on the lake the way legislation was unable to do. You would think these operators would get the message that unless they clean up and quiet down their act they will not be welcome on this lake by the vast majority of residents, and because of them the effort to enact a sane speed limit will continue!

[LIforrelaxin]

I think we all agree there are a lot of people that don't pay attention to the 150' rule.....Also everyone can probably agree that the GFBL issue is a divided one in this forum.... So here is my opinion.... we can squak all we want on here, but the most annoying of the boaters that are constantly getting under our skin are not on here looking at these posts..... so lets try and think of ways to get people more educated.... and ways to get more funding for the Marine Patrol, so that hopefully by the time the next generation is ready to be on the lake things we be better.............

[Joanna16]

I don't know what the big deal about a poker run is, but if they are associated with some organization or charity, I would like to know who that might be so I can voice my displeasure with them directly. . . . You would think these operators would get the message that unless they clean up and quiet down their act they will not be welcome on this lake by the vast majority of residents, and because of them the effort to enact a sane speed limit will continue!

Two points:

1.) Poker Runs are mainly done for charity. Their is one at the beginning of July every year for Easter Seals. Let me know how that phone call goes . . they tend to at least double attendance and monies raised every year. Also it is NOT a race.
http://nh.easterseals.com/site/Calendar?view=Detail&id=12121

2.) We non-residents will always be welcome to boat the lake as while you may be a property owner - you do not own the water.

[gwood]

I am vacationing up there with my boat next week so I want to make sure I have a couple of things straight from this thread.

First, what is a GFBL? I'm not sure, but I don't think I want to be one.

Second, the 150' rule seems easy but is it? I do alot of boating in rivers and small lakes. How do you judge whether you are 150' away or not? Seems like kind of a hard distance to judge. Any rules of thumb that you use to estimate whether you are 150' or not? I'm just glad they don't have the 600' rule in effect anymore...I don't see how anyone can judge that distance with any kind of accuracy.

Do I need to go buy a range finder?

Thanks.

[Dave R]

We spent the weekend on Long Lake and Sebago Lake in Maine. It was really peaceful and quiet even though it was probably the busiest weekend there all Summer. I'll always love Winnipesaukee (and will be there all next week) but it's great to know that there are alternatives if you don't like the craziness. You can legally anchor overnight in Maine too. It's wonderful to sleep on the hook and wake up to the peace of a completely quiet lake mere inches away and all around, just as the sun is coming up.

Winni, people have been going past Little Mark Island at WOT ever since power boats were first put on the lake (and probably long before the owners of the island were born). The folks on that island have got to be used to it by now. If they hate it so much, they can always sell and move away. I'm sure they'd have no trouble finding a buyer. That's a pretty sweet place to live, even with the obnoxiously loud boats occasionally ripping by.

[Resident 2B]

gwood,

GFBL is for Go Fast, Be Loud. It is the big HP multi-engine boats that in some cases go 70++ miles per hour. They often have through the hull exhaust that brings with it a sweet tone to some, and a lot of noise to others.

I use boat lengths to judge the 150' and I try to error on the longer side of the rule. My boat is about 24' so I use seven boat lengths as my guide. It is harder to measure in some dim light conditions and at times you are making judgements on several or more moving boats and fixed land points at one time, so it gets to be a bit of a test, especially on the weekends. The mid-weeks are not usually an issue. The area around the Weirs is great if you like a challenge.

Enjoy the vacation and please let us know your thoughts when you get back home.

R2B

[Woodsy]

GFBL stands for Go Fast Be Loud... its essentially a derogatory term used to describe hi performance boats. The funny part is alot of the family style bowriders also have the same type of exhaust system.

The 150' rule is pretty easy if you base it on boat length. How long is your boat? In my case my boat is 26', so I need approximately 6 boat lengths.

Don't worry about all this doom and gloom posted by those who have nothing better to do with thier time. Get yourself a NH boating booklet and come on up and enjoy the lake!

Woodsy

[Gatto Nero]

Second, the 150' rule seems easy but is it? I do alot of boating in rivers and small lakes. How do you judge whether you are 150' away or not? Seems like kind of a hard distance to judge. Any rules of thumb that you use to estimate whether you are 150' or not? I'm just glad they don't have the 600' rule in effect anymore...I don't see how anyone can judge that distance with any kind of accuracy.

Do I need to go buy a range finder?

Thanks.

Try to think of something that you know is about 150' long and do a comparison in your head. I picture a football field. 150' = 50 yards, which is 1/2 a football field. Maybe it could be the distance from your front door to a neighbor's front door. Whatever works for you.

[jrc]

....

And, my point was this person, as so many every day do so here, isn't here to enjoy the lake...

I'm sure if you asked the driver of that boat, they would say they enjoyed the lake very much. It is really amazing to me that some people truly believe that they can pass judgement to the relative value of peoples enjoyment. Somehow these people think that they can decide what activities are worthy of Lake Winnipesaukee. They have a special gift that allows them to decide that these "X" activities are good and these "Y" activities are bad.

[ITD]

Center Harbor and Wolfeboro have markers 150 feet from the dock. Other public docks may have them also. 150 feet is a lot closer then you would think by estimating , it surprised me since I usually give much more than 150 feet clearance when under way. Anyway I suggest everyone sidle up to one of these markers and see what 150 feet really is.

[Lin]

That's about how I summed up the wake conditions at Weirs Beach Saturday. Very busy day, Fascinating array of boats though. I took several shots of the bay and entrance toward the channel. I just put some of them up at the photopost. If you weren't there and want to see the conditions around 1 pm there posted.

[Resident 2B]

Lin,

I agree with you completely. I do not have a GFBL boat. I have a GSBQ bow rider. I anm near the Weirs and I enjoyed the "show" a lot last Saturday and I look forward to this same weekend next year. The chop was interesting, but manageable and fun for the kids.

FYI: I am a member of LPS and I contribute to that great organization as well. The lake is for everyone and no one should restrict anyone else's lawful use, in any way. Let's all try to be more understanding and open-minded.

Live Free or Die!

R2B

[lfm]

I am vacationing up there with my boat next week so I want to make sure I have a couple of things straight from this thread.

First, what is a GFBL? I'm not sure, but I don't think I want to be one.

Second, the 150' rule seems easy but is it? I do alot of boating in rivers and small lakes. How do you judge whether you are 150' away or not? Seems like kind of a hard distance to judge. Any rules of thumb that you use to estimate whether you are 150' or not? I'm just glad they don't have the 600' rule in effect anymore...I don't see how anyone can judge that distance with any kind of accuracy.

Do I need to go buy a range finder?

Thanks.

I pace off 150' when taking walks, eyeball something (a car, a mailbox, a boat parked on a trailor), then take a guess at a similar sized object and then pace it off to see how I did. I've found that if I can read a license plate or a bow number then I am pretty close to 150'.

Good luck and enjoy the lake. Whether you're coming to Winni to enjoy the thrill of running your boat WOT or to commune with nature or both, it is a wonderful place, in fact there is no place I'd rather be. :)

LFM

[upthesaukee]

I am vacationing up there with my boat next week so I want to make sure I have a couple of things straight from this thread.

First, what is a GFBL? I'm not sure, but I don't think I want to be one.

Second, the 150' rule seems easy but is it? I do alot of boating in rivers and small lakes. How do you judge whether you are 150' away or not? Seems like kind of a hard distance to judge. Any rules of thumb that you use to estimate whether you are 150' or not? I'm just glad they don't have the 600' rule in effect anymore...I don't see how anyone can judge that distance with any kind of accuracy.

Do I need to go buy a range finder?

Thanks.

For me, it's a 50 yard pitch shot on a golf course. Seeing as how I often find myself "going for the green" and coming up short, I am often times midway between the green and the red (usually) 100 yard marker. When in doubt, err on the side of caution...so what if you are at head way speed at 75 yards (225 feet).:)

[ApS]

"...Any rules of thumb that you use to estimate whether you are 150' or not...?"

Many water ski tow ropes are packaged in 75' lengths. Just "double" a typical skier's distance from the boat, and you'll have your 150' distance.

It's pretty far!

[DoTheMath]

A good way for just about anyone to reference this is to use telephone poles. A common or "typical" pole spacing that you see in your average residential neighborhood, (more so down here in the busy suburbs than up north) is 130' +/-. So, if you take a look at that next time you are out in your car or for a walk - and get familiar with it - you will have a good idea of what it is. Throw some common sense and courtesy into the mix and we will have a much safer (and friendlier) lake just by doing something that simple. :)

[LIforrelaxin]

For all you football fans out there a field minus the end zones is 100 yards, so 300 feet..... I just think about half a football field..... (disclaimer: of course this approach assumes you have set foot on a field).......

[Waterbaby]

I seem to remember reading on this forum a couple of years ago or so........ isn't there some type of setup in Glendale @ MP HQ, like a marker set up 150' from the end of the dock or something, so that people can get a good idea of what 150' looks like on the water?

[codeman671]

I always tell people to multiply the length of their boat to figure the distance. If I am in a 24' pontoon it is roughly 6 boat lengths. Most of my passengers see this as easy to visualize in this case.

[Outlaw]

....FYI: I am a member of LPS and I contribute to that great organization as well. R2B

Would that be LRSPS (Lakes Region Sail & Power Squadron)? Here's something for many of you readers to consider. Safety and education are an issue on the Big lake and all lakes, consider becoming a member of LRSPS to work toward better boater education and safety awareness. http://www.lrsps.org/


I am amazed every year by some of the people I talk to when doing vessel safety checks in how little they know about boating safety. Sometimes I get the bajebers scared out of me. Let's help each other, and be part of the solution - everyone is absolutely right about boater common sense and courtesy - there are times when it does not appear to be in existence on the lakes. And there are times when you exercise proper boating skills and the driver of the other boat looks at you like you have two heads (all because you obeyed the rules and did what you were supposed to).

Let me know if any of you have questions about LRSPS and if you're not busy this Thursday night at 7:30, I invite you to come to our monthly meeting of the Executive Committee to hear and learn more (Paugus Bay Marina on Rt. 3 in Meredith).

[Outlaw]

Outlaw, wish I'd read your post BEFORE heading to the lake, lol! .... There was a family "driving" around on the water in one of those amphibious carboats -- remember those? ....
Your post made me laugh:) Last summer I actually got to ride in one of those amphib cars/boats. We did a vessel safety check on it and the owner gave used a cruise around Wolfeboro bay. Quite a memorable experience and a little freaky at the same time.